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12-12-18 05:27 AM
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Xeogaming Forums - Debate Shrine - "Under God" in the Pledge and on money | |
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Elara

Divine Mamkute
Dark Elf Goddess
Chaos Imp
Penguins Fan

Ms. Invisable








Since: 08-15-04
From: Ferelden

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 5 days
Posted on 03-03-05 04:31 PM Link | Quote
One of the biggest debates you hear about lately is weither or not "Under God" should remain on our currency and in the Pledge of Alligence. What are your thoughts on the matter?

Here is a few facts to think about before I give my opinion:

The words were not added to either thing until 1954, before that they were not in the Pledge or on our money. If you've lived in a hole and don't know, during the 50s we were in the beginning of the Cold War with the vastly Atheist Soviet Union. The words were added to make it seem as we had "God's favor in a battle with a Godless nation". That was the purpose of the words.

I feel we don't need them, we didn't have them at the beginning and I prefer it without. I never said the Pledge in high school for that reason.
Kaijin Surohm
I'll save you all time:
My opinion is completely diffrent from yours.
Thus, you should hate me and not get to know me.
I just saved you 3 days worth of arguements.








Since: 08-16-04

Since last post: 2537 days
Last activity: 576 days
Posted on 03-03-05 04:38 PM Link | Quote
The Pledge itself never bothered me, hell, I never even took the words "Under God" into serious consideration 'till I heard some idiot took it to court (after HOW many years that its been in ther?!).

What thoes "Never Wrong, Extremists" types don't understand is, you don't HAVE to say the pledge. The teachers even stated that one. It's Optional. its just one way to show your loyalty to the home of the free. (Noone dare make a bad remark about my Free comment.)

Not callin ya an Extremeist, Elara, I'm talkin bout thoes who acctually want to take this to court x-x
Jin

Posting Pig
Not Dead








Since: 01-12-05
From: Nowhere

Since last post: 509 days
Last activity: 368 days
Posted on 03-03-05 04:40 PM Link | Quote
Since they were never there to BEGIN with I see absolutely no reason to NOT take them back out.
If there is a god, He's not for America in any way I don't think..

This pesuado religious crowd in the government branches allways make me chuckle a bit since so many of the christians I know buy into.
Spartan

Metal battleaxe
Is back. Kind of.








Since: 11-15-04
From: California

Since last post: 157 days
Last activity: 20 days
Posted on 03-03-05 04:43 PM Link | Quote
The under god thing does not bother me i am and atheist and i believe in evolution...But i still pledge allegiance to my flag...omitting the words under god...Really not that hard. Or you can just stand and be respectful.

Is it really that hard...

How are you physically hurt by saying that. Dont say it if it bothers you.
Jin

Posting Pig
Not Dead








Since: 01-12-05
From: Nowhere

Since last post: 509 days
Last activity: 368 days
Posted on 03-03-05 04:46 PM Link | Quote
I just don't pledge allegance. I'll stand if it's somewhere like court or the like but considering I don't pla to live in America past the age of 25. I'm not pledgeing any sort of allegance to these united states of america.
avatar of law

Beezo








Since: 12-29-04
From: paris, canada

Since last post: 3596 days
Last activity: 3596 days
Posted on 03-03-05 06:33 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Kaijin
The Pledge itself never bothered me, hell, I never even took the words "Under God" into serious consideration 'till I heard some idiot took it to court (after HOW many years that its been in ther?!).

What thoes "Never Wrong, Extremists" types don't understand is, you don't HAVE to say the pledge. The teachers even stated that one. It's Optional. its just one way to show your loyalty to the home of the free. (Noone dare make a bad remark about my Free comment.)

Not callin ya an Extremeist, Elara, I'm talkin bout thoes who acctually want to take this to court x-x


i dont ever recalling any of my teachers telling me that it's optional, and i dont think any teacher even bothers to tell you at such a young age you wouldnt understand anyways. and that's the entire point, making little kids saying something they dont understand is totally wrong. who cares if you dont care, the point of the matter is that little kids have no clue what they're doing, whatever the teachers do, they do too without question, and that's what's wrong. and anyways, how do you know no one before have tried to take it to court but failed because of people oppressing them?
Van Rhanell

Missile Bot








Since: 08-15-04
From: Fraser, Michigan

Since last post: 4173 days
Last activity: 4176 days
Posted on 03-03-05 09:18 PM Link | Quote
This to me is one of those minute little details that nobody needs to question, but then many people somehow follow it. Even if it wasn't always there, America's founders were of a Christian majority. Their idea was to have a nation which ran on and supported Christianity, but its citizens did not have to practice it. Having under God in our pledge and our coins should be a small reminder for those who might happen to notice it. Modern America (our very worst generations) has done its best to get rid of God from its core and make false theories that eliminate the purpose of religion. The people who want to take God out of our currency and the Pledge are doing nothing but setting America as the first nation to be judged.
Elara

Divine Mamkute
Dark Elf Goddess
Chaos Imp
Penguins Fan

Ms. Invisable








Since: 08-15-04
From: Ferelden

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 5 days
Posted on 03-03-05 10:14 PM Link | Quote
Actually most of the Founding Fathers of this country were Deists, which are like borderline Atheists, and they based our Constitution and the vision of this nation off of the philosophy of John Locke.
Pockets

Werewolf
pockets








Since: 10-20-04

Since last post: 2919 days
Last activity: 2435 days
Posted on 03-03-05 10:45 PM Link | Quote
I never said the pledge because i have no allegiance to this or any country. People are people, which means people are stupid no matter what country they're in or how much power or money that country has.

I just try to live in this world.
geeogree

Ninji








Since: 10-19-04

Since last post: 3003 days
Last activity: 1152 days
Posted on 03-03-05 10:49 PM Link | Quote
actually.... the fouding fathers were all nazis!!!!

who cares what people claim they were? and how can you prove it either way?
Makura









Since: 01-22-05
From: The restaurant at the end of the universe....

Since last post: 3715 days
Last activity: 2980 days
Posted on 03-03-05 10:49 PM Link | Quote
I don't even stand when the pledge is said. By law I don't have to, I just can't prevent anyone else from saying it.
Spartan

Metal battleaxe
Is back. Kind of.








Since: 11-15-04
From: California

Since last post: 157 days
Last activity: 20 days
Posted on 03-03-05 11:07 PM Link | Quote
I meant no offence to anyone but would it really be that just ot stand and be respectful...

Just a question please enlighten me.

Belial

Bazu








Since: 01-29-05
From: New Zealand

Since last post: 2193 days
Last activity: 1807 days
Posted on 03-04-05 07:04 AM Link | Quote
I stand in respect. This is probably America's worst generation thus far when it comes to respect. Although I find myself being more respectful than those actually reciting the pledge.
01001000
Slow Ride
Take It Easy









Since: 01-10-05

Since last post: 4355 days
Last activity: 3705 days
Posted on 03-04-05 12:14 PM Link | Quote
I stand in respect since I am a citizen, but I don't pledge because I don't see their a need to pledge my allegiance to an innanimate symbolistic object.
Jobes

Car Joe








Since: 02-01-05
From: Bensalem

Since last post: 3837 days
Last activity: 2836 days
Posted on 03-04-05 04:59 PM Link | Quote
Ok under God are just words I dont know if anyone stated this before but hey if they did i am just going to resay it. There might be a god, there might not be but that isnt the question here. Now a days people are looking for ways to piss other poeple or just to sue somebody for stupid things. Those words never hurt me and like stated before you just dont have to say them. So i say they can stay in and on both. And other founding fathers weren't nazis, without them we wouldnt be were we are now.


(Last edited by Jobes on 03-04-05 08:03 PM)
Astrophel
Fear will kill your mind and steal your love as sure as anything;
Fear will rob you blind and make you numb to others suffering









Since: 10-03-04
From: Azul Lux Orbital, Kirin Beta

Since last post: 308 days
Last activity: 146 days
Posted on 03-04-05 05:40 PM Link | Quote
Well, I'm back to make a post here.

I haven't stood for the pledge of allegiance since... oh, I think sixth grade. This hadn't become a problem until tenth, when my teacher threatened to throw me out of the class if I didn't say the pledge. I still refused to stand, was thrown out of that class for a week, and still refuse to stand. There's a reason I posted this, so shut up and keep reading.

It should be removed. I'm not one of those people that'll go to court over it unless my rights are directly violated; take the above example and add a one-week suspension for a good idea of when I'd start to get pissed and consider legal action, but there was nothing wrong with the pledge or with our money before they added those words, and there was no good reason to add them. I'll remind you that "to make us look good" is never a good reason.




Afterthought Note: In my "not standing" for the pledge, I was in no way disrespectful. I was silent, I made no gestures to anyone, and really the only differences between me and the rest of the class were that I wasn't repeating something they had all already said over 1,800 times already and that I wasn't standing up.
True Flight

The One








Since: 08-21-04

Since last post: 730 days
Last activity: 715 days
Posted on 03-04-05 07:22 PM Link | Quote
To be honest I could care less. My mornings consisted of me either standing to say the pledge, but I don't. Or sitting, because I'm too lazy.

Okay Patriotism is okay these days alright? It's just not okay to make a SIX HOUR MARATHON based on just old people saying what freedom was to him.
avatar of law

Beezo








Since: 12-29-04
From: paris, canada

Since last post: 3596 days
Last activity: 3596 days
Posted on 03-04-05 08:22 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Jobes
Ok under God are just words I dont know if anyone stated this before but hey if they did i am just going to resay it.

actually, words arent "just words." they can be to you, but that's not what they're meant it to be. the very fact that it's a capitalized G means that it's the christian's God. anywho, some people live by words, i being one. i dont say stupid shit and not mean it; what i say is who i am. and those words arent what we're talking about. the FACT that it's THERE in the pledge is what the WHOLE issue is about. why single out one religion and have others say it, especially when it's seperation of church and state. and especially when everyone is allowed to practice their own religion and to have the capitalized G is hypocrisy. plus, it's the PRINCIPLE of the matter. one has to draw the line somewhere.


(Last edited by avatar of law on 03-04-05 11:24 PM)
Draken

Stone axe








Since: 08-26-04
From: Wouldnt you like to know

Since last post: 4102 days
Last activity: 4086 days
Posted on 03-04-05 09:10 PM Link | Quote
ok first of all God is not just the Christian God its also the Jews too. Second We people who stand up salute and pledge to the symbol of our nation that has been here sice the revolutionary war, that has brought pride to our troops from The revolutionary war to Operation Iraqi Freedom and help them to continue to serve and defend our country so that you can have a right to vote whether or not to keep "under God" in the pledge the least you can do is stand for thirdy seconds and pledge to the symbol of our nation. But thirdly even if you dont stand the pride of us true Americans will not falter we stand true to our nation. If i were 10 inches from death that pride i hold in my heart will still be as thick as it is now. and as a matter of fact our For faters came over to america to separate Church from state yet our own laws are base off of the church in almost every document written by the founding faters have the word God in it so why does the pledge have to change too even if t was just in the 1950s.

and another thing i have been saying "Under God" sice i have been able to say the pledge of allegence and i like it just the way it satands i suppose that next youll be wanting to to take
"E-PLURIBUS UNUM" off of the US coins to wont youi say keep God in the Coins and pledge. and for the latin impared it means "Out of Many One"
out of many differeent people, cultures, face every thing you get one nation ournation "Under God I-N-D-I-V-I-S-I-B-L-E wit liberty and justice for all"



(Last edited by Draken on 03-05-05 12:23 AM)
Elara

Divine Mamkute
Dark Elf Goddess
Chaos Imp
Penguins Fan

Ms. Invisable








Since: 08-15-04
From: Ferelden

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 5 days
Posted on 03-05-05 07:02 PM Link | Quote
Draken, the phrase "E Pluribis Unum", which indeed translates to "from many one" is on our currency because we are one country but many states. Therefore "from many states, one country", hence the "United States".

Oh, and apparently, at least in California, there is some law that says you have to stand. I nearly got suspended in 11th grade for not standing, but instead they made me sign a contract saying that I would stand. I didn't have to say it, but I had to stand to show respect, even though I have none. I refused to stand for a nation who does not follow the main doctrine that it was based upon, one that was a lie. You have "freedom of religion" by our law, but if your religion is anything but a denomination of Christianity you are persecuted for it, even if it is you are still persecuted if it is not a popular form. I was heavily persecuted in high school for my religion, so don't you dare tell me that it doesn't happen!
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