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09-22-18 08:49 AM
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Xeogaming Forums - Debate Shrine - The Death Penalty | |
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Rogue
If you're reading this... You are the Resistance











Since: 08-17-04

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 11 hours
Posted on 06-20-05 10:58 AM Link | Quote
It's funny you should say that Jin, because laughing about people who can't remain consistent is one of my ways of getting a kick out of life. Incidentally I'm a pro-choicer with a somewhat more conservative view on the death penalty.

You know what I find even more hilarious? When people are against the death penalty and suddenly when someone they love is ruthlessly killed, this person begins to seek vengence. They want the killer to suffer... to die... hell, they even start to boast of things they'd like to do to this person in a dark room with a set of pliers. Tisk, tisk, tisk.

I personally don't care. I'm not going to protest it. I see nothing seriously wrong with it. It's mostly a matter of principle.

What I wouldn't mind seeing is if a family loses their loved one and the jury finds him guilty, they give the option of death to the family. Yes, I know it's partial, but this is your chance to see if you can, in your heart, forgive and pity a killer... or simply bring the wrath of God down.

I should also mention a case that was presented in an issue of Hustler. A rapist was sent to prison after having been convicted for raping and beheading something over 20 children. One night, a few doors were just mysteriously left unlocked in the prison. They found him mostly decapitated (head was still dangling by some skin and muscle) and a broken off broom stick up his ass. And no one had made an attempt to escape the prison...




(Last edited by Rogue on 06-22-05 12:07 PM)
Rauni

"Everyone is waiting for you. Waiting to hit you with rocks and spit at you. Who's everyone? Everyone you love."








Since: 08-14-04

Since last post: 2974 days
Last activity: 2974 days
Posted on 06-21-05 08:20 AM Link | Quote
I am just going to point out my 2 views of this:

- What's so good about it?

Well, the Death Penalty does waste alot of money on someone who is going to suffer day by day... when they could just execute him or her for their wrongdoing action. However, would you want to see murderer who was released and started killing again? I think not, when this time, he or she could even blow up some innocents as well... Hence, Death Penalty may be helpful here...

- What's so bad about it? (My Strongest Point of View)

Okay, suppose let's say someone need to kill the person who threaten their life and family. Now that someone finally found out who it is, commit a homicide against the threater, and then later the police arrest him for commiting a homicide. Later at the court, you found that the defensive was talking about being threaten by a unknown person and the cops wouldn't do anything about it. You wouldn't believe that story and think he would need a death penalty.

Well, congratulation, you just kill a innocent who wanted to protect his family life... Some would call this immortal action to do, since this would reflect against most people feeling and stuff. Heck, if someone found you of something that can give you a death penalty when you never did something wrong, would you feel happy to die in a short amount of time?

I know death penalty is good for some but bad for some too... But this counts as one of the U.S. Admentment (Spelling check please.) Remember that one of them state something like:

"It is illegal to give out unusal and harsh punishment."

Wouldn't Death Penalty count as one?

Would you be happy to die because of the Death Penalty for action you didn't do?

Would you feel the need to punish the person who threaten your life and your family when there are no one to help you? (This can result in a death penalty.)

I know some would say WTF are you talking about Beowulf? but all I am saying that it is best to forgive than to punish... (in the term of someone learning their lesson.)
avatar of law

Beezo








Since: 12-29-04
From: paris, canada

Since last post: 3515 days
Last activity: 3515 days
Posted on 06-21-05 05:52 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Beowulf Cor Leonis

Okay, suppose let's say someone need to kill the person who threaten their life and family. Now that someone finally found out who it is, commit a homicide against the threater, and then later the police arrest him for commiting a homicide. Later at the court, you found that the defensive was talking about being threaten by a unknown person and the cops wouldn't do anything about it. You wouldn't believe that story and think he would need a death penalty.

Well, congratulation, you just kill a innocent who wanted to protect his family life...

"It is illegal to give out unusal and harsh punishment."

Wouldn't Death Penalty count as one?

Would you feel the need to punish the person who threaten your life and your family when there are no one to help you? (This can result in a death penalty.)



where to start... =/ well, he did kill a guy, so why are you calling him an "innocent person" who wanted to protect his family? if he did kill the guy, i wouldnt call that being innocent =/

secondly, you only get the death penalty if you commited first degree murder along with another felony, so that guy wouldnt get the death penalty, unless he did some other crazy shit.

thirdy, it's cruel and unusal punishment. the death penalty isnt cruel or unusual because we've been doing it for thousands of years already. there's nothing unusal about it. and we're giving them the needle now, so it's not cruel either.

fourthly, eventhough no one listened to him, there's still a million other things he could've done, w/o having to kill the person who threatened him or his family. like, i dunno, moved away, hire a PI, get evidence that someone is threatening you and turn it over to the cops...et al.

lastly, i think you need to think about it a little bit more about this =/


(Last edited by avatar of law on 06-21-05 08:52 PM)
Jobes

Car Joe








Since: 02-01-05
From: Bensalem

Since last post: 3756 days
Last activity: 2756 days
Posted on 06-21-05 07:06 PM Link | Quote
Avatar you beat me to the punch. I was pretty much going to state the same thing as he did. It wouldn't be under the topic Self-Defense because there is no immediate danger to you or your family. If he was trying to harm you and kill you then you had the right to kill the person in Self Defense. You can not go out and kill someone because he made threats. That is all they are threats.
Rauni

"Everyone is waiting for you. Waiting to hit you with rocks and spit at you. Who's everyone? Everyone you love."








Since: 08-14-04

Since last post: 2974 days
Last activity: 2974 days
Posted on 06-22-05 08:23 AM Link | Quote
And this is what would happened later, your house blew up. Why? Because those threats you take less so seriously can actually make you think that person was telling a lie?

Oh wait, what if the police think that person just recieved a phone-prank call? Would that still be funny if the phone-pranker was served a death penalty? I know, if the murderer set the bomb up in the car, and everyone was moving away, he blew them up! Nowaday, people just can take it to the next level.

And who say death isn't unusual and cruel punishment? I know, people are so desireful for taste of revenge. So they think killing murderer will help them feel better... But the real questions are: "Have they learn their moral value lesson or not? Are they still human who wrong themselves? How would they feel, happy, sad, or just lonely?"

How would you feel if you kill a person who didn't do anything wrong (and being honest with us) and you let a murderer get away (who told a very nifty story)? Oh wait, I know... You wouldn't give a damn about anyone family. If that's okay with you, then what the point of losing a innocent father and letting the murderer get away?

~~~~~~

Okay, here is the senerio for you guys. Suppose one day you walk down the alley. All the sudden a guy hold his knife close to his coat, and the sercuitry camera was recording at that time (on a bad angle). He threaten you to give him all of the money, you shot him. Now the police found you, arrested you for murder and you went to court. There was a evidence, that bad sercuitry camera show YOU kill him and the knife was not revealed at first. They jumped to conclusion that you just kill a innocent person.

Are you happy now? Guess what? You just received the death penalty and died the other day. 2 days later, they found a secret camera that show YOU were threaten in the first place and it was clearly self-defense. All they said was: "Oh well, (insert your gender) should have done better."

~~~~~~

I don't know if you understand it or not, but today, everyone is being tricky to get other people with a death penalty. Would you feel like having 50 murderer made up a story to get 50 innocents a death penalty?

I think not... And this is clearly how I felt. Sometime, it is better to leave them in the cell and let them regret for what they have done. You can not grant yourself the right to kill people. Murderer are people, innocents are people, poor people are people, are you saying that they all worth a death penalty? The problem is: You would NEVER care about how it affect other innocent people life...

Green Mile was a prefect example of bad and wrongdoing death penalty. I think you need to watch it... It show that there are more people out there that can be wrongfully accused.
Lord Vulkas Mormonus

Vile
High Xeodent of Xeomerica.








Since: 10-29-04
From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way

Since last post: 269 days
Last activity: 4 days
Posted on 06-22-05 08:47 AM Link | Quote
Beowolf, I'll have to say that you clearly underestimate the goverment.

Before the death penalty is given, there will always be a thorough investigation. Never has the scenario you mentioned happened.

Also, they would examine the persons body, find the knife, and then using that evidence, go to the jury.

____________________

Now for my opinion, it's much more merciful to kill them. Therefore, after they kill someone, perhaps should they be kept alive and misrable for the rest of their life?

But then we see the cost for keeping them alive. Food, water, and overcrowded jails. I say even though it may be more merciful, we should kill them. Murderers are very worthy of the death penalty.

______________________

Now for my last statement. Yes, killing killers does indeed make us killers. Same with troops killing enemy troops, people killing in self defense, etc.

The diference is this, killing murderers does not make us murderers. We killed a person who knew what they were doing when they killed. We are killers, but not murderers.
Rauni

"Everyone is waiting for you. Waiting to hit you with rocks and spit at you. Who's everyone? Everyone you love."








Since: 08-14-04

Since last post: 2974 days
Last activity: 2974 days
Posted on 06-22-05 09:51 AM Link | Quote
And you clearly underestimate few of people's logic too.

Look, suppose they did find the knife. But on the video tapes, it show that you pull out the guns and then he pull out a knife for "self-defense". It would have proven otherwise but when they saw you shot a "innocent" person, they could mistaken YOU as a murderer or a thug. Tell me Vulkar, did you hear that or did you just assume that it never happened? Because the chances are, they leave facts out for people who doesn't know about thing.

Look... if you want to kill some murderer, fine... But them being misrable help them to regret their action, and soon or later, they relieze that killing is wrong.

Oh wait, here is a interesting facts: You say murderer is worthly of death. Okay, then soon or later, we can say that Bin Laden is worthly of death. We can say Saddum is worthly of death. So is it okay to say President Bush is worthly of death since he "murder" all of those who try to fight for their own country (a.k.a. our enemy)?

Vulkar, I know you are pro on death penalty. But...

That fact that killing and murder isn't the same thing, but both are still mean few things: Death. Greed. Revenge. And all of those crap. Do you think life is that easy when people can alway execute other people for action they commited and want to atone their sin by helping other?

Look, if you kill a murderer who doesn't want to hurt a another being, I would see that as a murder. If someone kill a murderer who did nothing harmful to other fellow prisoner, it is STILL A MURDER. And everyone decided to kill a member by throwing the switch, it is STILL A MURDER. Why? Murder is just about the same as killing people, with or without a reason.

Tell me, do you think the government care about who get the death penalty and who doesn't? And even they do it for several time, IT IS STILL UNUSUAL AND CRUEL PUNISHMENT. Okay, since they do death penalty that break that rule, I am pretty sure the government would give out death penalty for free.

Look, Vulkar... The real questions: "Do you care about people feeling, regardless of what they did?" "Do you understood their feeling to give up something they know what worth risking?" "Do you just judge them by their way of action, without knowing that they did it to protect someone?"

Saying you don't care about everyone... wouldn't that make me and you a murderer then? Please, try to understand that some of the loved one don't want to see someone die just to protect or to help a person or group of people!
avatar of law

Beezo








Since: 12-29-04
From: paris, canada

Since last post: 3515 days
Last activity: 3515 days
Posted on 06-22-05 03:13 PM Link | Quote
OMFG STOP IT LEONIS!!!! we know what you're trying to say, but you're giving us HORRIBLE EXAMPLES!!

i've been saying it over and over and over and over, and i'll say it AGAIN, YOU ONLY GET THE DEATH PENALTY IF YOU HAVE COMMITTED FIRST DEGREE MURDER ALONG WITH ANOTHER FELONY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALONG WITH ANOTHER FELONY!!!!!!!!! so unless your "innocent" guy raped the guy, then stabbed him, he wont get the death penalty. plus, ALL death penalty cases are AUTOMATICALLY reviewed by the supreme court. THE SUPREME COURT!

and yeah, Laden and Saddam has killed other people with their bare hands, Bush has not with his bare hands. DIFFERENT CASES!

and i've already explained the death penalty is not CRUEL because we're using a fucking needle now! it's not unusual because it's been going on for thousands of years already, it's nothing new or unusual. unusual is when you sentence him to be ass raped by the family or something like that.

and plus, who fucking cares if the suspect wants to "atone" for his sins? if we actually do listen, what are the odds that suddenly EVERYONE in prison wanted to "atone" rather than going to jail? the whole system would crumble.

and so what? too little, too fucking late. atoning wont bring the person he killed back to life, will it? HELL NO. being able to atone so you wont get the death penalty? what the hell grabage idea is that? everyone'll want to atone then if it means they won die.

and stop it with your examples, they're horrible. self defense is one thing, but you've got people going out and killing ppl as "self defense." that's twisting what self defense means. going out to find the person and killing them is first degree murder. self defense is in the heat of the moment when you're threaten with great bodily harm or death, and you're only allowed to use reasonable force.

and in your example, with the guy who wants your money and points you with a knife, why the fuck was the "innocent" guy going around with a gun?

Vulkar explained pefectly the differences between being a muderer and a killer.

and yeah, for the record, i'm not flaming, i'm just trying to set things straight


(Last edited by avatar of law on 06-22-05 06:15 PM)
Arpegius

Wall Bot








Since: 08-16-04
From: the world of warcraft

Since last post: 4726 days
Last activity: 4622 days
Posted on 06-22-05 05:41 PM Link | Quote
I believe in the death penalty. Here is one exception: If someone is accused of killing, and there is suffiecient evidence but no body is found, then they should just give them life in prison.

I believe if there was a body, and sufficient evidence, the person should die. It's not just punishment (it is along with...) It's also a warning to people who do kill, dont ask me why people want to lose thier life after taking another's...
Rauni

"Everyone is waiting for you. Waiting to hit you with rocks and spit at you. Who's everyone? Everyone you love."








Since: 08-14-04

Since last post: 2974 days
Last activity: 2974 days
Posted on 06-23-05 09:02 AM Link | Quote
Avatar, listen... (Please, do not tell me what to do. Otherwise, you may never understand a person feeling.)

You are probably a person who never is going to give a person a chance to live if they have done something wrong. If I would see a cold heartless murderer (who have no motivation or just brutal killing), then I wouldn't mind seeing him have a death penalty (There is your horrible example). But most murderers are NOT SO cold and heartless. They also have motivation for the reason they have to kill.

And if you think about it correctly, even war is murder and everyone involved in it are murderer. Do yourself a favor, go to a Supreme Court, when a murderer get a death sentence, laugh in front of the murderer's family face. Do you think this is funny? Do you think we can just sent out Death Penalty because we like to? The family would feel like they don't exist on these planets and you are fucking with everyone life.

I don't fucking care on how long have it been, but it STILL count as a unusal and cruel punishment. Would you like to have a death penalty if you commit cold murderer? Okay, we can inject people needles any time, this way, there are no limits on death penalty regardless of what the law have to say about this. It is just like tearing limbs apart. We can do this for a thousand years, and still do it. By the time then, we wouldn't care about the unusal and cruel punishment. Heck, let take it a away and people would feel less safer now. I think you would be happy to let everyone get a cruel and unusal punishment. Would you?

Great, let massarce every single murderer by injecting needles, laugh in the murderer's face, and call it a day. Would this be something funny to think about? Would this be normally call as United State? I don't think so, because we might as well call ourselves murderer too. And when we do, should we inject ourselves the needles?

Avatar, I am only saying this is because it is better to hear that prisoner have their rights too, even at a mininal right. If you take everyone's right away, they wouldn't feel happy around you or would understand your feeling too. Bah, they might as well leave because not only you are killing murderer, you are also murderering everyone as well. Maybe a two trails may be suffice but there are only going to need one trail to last in a prison, regret their action, and if successfully, become a changed man. If he decided to be a bitch about it, then let him sat in his cold damp prison to realize what he did so wrong about in his life and how could he help other people next time. (By next time, I mean young people who need to learn what prison is all about and the moral concept of harming another or learning a lesson.)

So avatar, if this doesn't help me or anyone at all... guess what? It is MY point of view, and don't you ever fucking change it. I don't change your damn point of view because I can't control you and you can't control me. Only I can try to understand it, and I think it is better to do the same with me.

If you desire something so bad, Avatar, people are going to have a different views whether you like it or not. So don't just think that I don't have the right to speak out my feeling. Because I know YOU have feeling but you need to be reasonable with other people, not pushing them until they think you are right.
avatar of law

Beezo








Since: 12-29-04
From: paris, canada

Since last post: 3515 days
Last activity: 3515 days
Posted on 06-23-05 03:34 PM Link | Quote
i'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. all i am simply trying to do is straighten the record and provide information to the ignorant by which you have been trying to convince with your twisted and incorrect stories.

Executions by Year

YEAR
76 77 78 79
01 01 00 02
80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89
00 01 02 05 21 18 18 25 11 16
90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99
23 14 31 38 31 56 45 74 68 98
00 01 02 03 04 05
85 66 71 65 59 X

First-degree murder (or murder in the first degree, or colloquially, murder one) refers to premeditated murder, or murder which occurs after some degree of reflection by the murderer. This reflection can be years or less than a second.

Second-degree murder or voluntary manslaughter refers to
murder done without thought in the heat of the moment, or in some states after "adequate provocation".

Third-degree murder, also known as manslaughter,
occurs without the specific intent to kill, but usually after an act of criminal negligence or some other act resulting in a person's death. This would in some cases include a death caused by drunk driving or someone dying as the result of an assault in which case the perpetrator didn't have the intent to kill.

A defendant may be sentenced to death if first degree murder is committed under any of the following circumstances:
1. murder for financial gain.
2. explosive or destructive device, use of.
3. poison, use of.
4. torture, infliction of.
5. arson, during commission of.
6. rape, during commission of.
7. robbery, during commission of.
8. burglary, 1st or 2nd degree.
9. mayhem (The willful and unlawful crippling or mutilation of another person), during commission of.
10. peace officer, murder of in performance of duty.
11. perjury, causing execution of innocent person.
12. witness, murder to prevent testimony.
13. kidnapping, murder during.
14. child molesting, murder during.
15. train wrecking causing death.
16. murder by life convict.
17. murder with prior conviction.
18. multiple murders.
19. sabotage, murder during (military and veterans code).
20. conspiracy to commit capital crime.
21. murder committed for the purpose of preventing a lawful arrest or during or attemping an escape from lawful custody.
22. firefighter, murder of, while engaged in performance of duty, and defendant knows or should know victim performing duities.
23. prosecutor, murder of, and carried out in retaliation for or to prevent performance of offical duties.
24. judge, murder of, carried out in retaliation for or to prevent performance of offical duties.
25. elected or appointed official, murder of, carried out in retaliation for or to prevent performance of offical duties.
26. murder by defendant lying in wait.
27. victim was intentially killed because of race, color, relition, nationality, or country of origin.
28. sodomy, murder during commision of.
29. oral copulation, murder commited during.
30. murder especially atrocious, cruel or pitiless.
31. murder during rape by object, juror retaliation, drive by shooting, or car jacking.

YOU HAVE YET to show in any of your examples, any one of these situation. you apparently have no clue what you are talking about.

and you have yet to prove how/why the death penalty is cruel and unusual. all you keep saying is that it's cruel and unusual, yet have no backings on why it's cruel or unusual. i've said it over and over and over and i'll say it again, the needle is painless, therefore not cruel. cruel is to give him daily beatings on his balls. death is not unusual, it happens everyday; it has been used as a penalty for thousands of years. unusual would be to sentence the defendant to have his penis cut off and feed to himself.




(Last edited by avatar of law on 06-23-05 06:38 PM)
Xeios

You WANKER!








Since: 08-16-04

Since last post: 2821 days
Last activity: 991 days
Posted on 06-23-05 05:37 PM Link | Quote
Hey, I'm republican, so, the death penalty is cool!

Teach those prisoners a lesson. but they should stop using the needle, they should go back to something more painful...
Pat Meth

Paratroopa








Since: 03-18-05
From: Keyes

Since last post: 4838 days
Last activity: 4833 days
Posted on 06-23-05 08:32 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xeios
Hey, I'm republican, so, the death penalty is cool!


That is what I call cruel and unusual punishment. Please tell me that's not actually how you choose your beliefs.
Jobes

Car Joe








Since: 02-01-05
From: Bensalem

Since last post: 3756 days
Last activity: 2756 days
Posted on 06-24-05 03:15 PM Link | Quote
Alright Xeios qoute uncalled for. I am a republican and I am for the death penalty, but that is not why I am for it. I think that people who commit murder and have been found guilty. I know some of you people out there are going to be like we have killed innocent people, but what should we do with them; build more prisons, waste more of our money on someone who shouldn't live and what makes you think life imprision is going to do anygood. Ok I know they are humans and all but I believe they give that right up as soon as they kill another person. What gives a killer the right to kill someone. I see the death penalty as completing the circle.
Dark Vader

Slime








Since: 10-21-04
From: Menzoberanzan

Since last post: 4792 days
Last activity: 4778 days
Posted on 06-24-05 04:22 PM Link | Quote
I am for the Death Penalty. If you are convicted of murder, I don't think that you should sit on death row for twenty or thirty years... They should take everyone out back of the prison once a week and walk down the line and cap them in the head or something. Why waste food and other supplies on people that we are just going to kill a few years down the line anyway? And I do not agree with the life in prison ruling. The way they have it, you can still get out of prison. Life in prison should mean that you are in there until you die. If that means you die at 150 years old, you are in there until you are 150 years old not when you are 145 or 144.
Astrophel
Fear will kill your mind and steal your love as sure as anything;
Fear will rob you blind and make you numb to others suffering









Since: 10-03-04
From: Azul Lux Orbital, Kirin Beta

Since last post: 227 days
Last activity: 66 days
Posted on 07-02-05 04:53 PM Link | Quote
The death penalty shouldn't even be called that. If people are being killed quickly and somewhat painlessly, how much of a penalty is that? Death erases all guilt, all pain... unless there is an afterlife, but I deal only with what we know, not what we believe.

If someone killed someone else, they deserve to suffer a bit. More so if the person they killed went through a lot of pain. So, even with certain executions having some pain to them, it's probably nowhere NEAR what their victims went through.

Personally, I say stick 'em in a cell and make them do hard labor for their food. It's still not what I feel they deserve, but it's as close as we could realistically get without human rights groups getting pissed.


Of course, I feel that our justice system could use a bit of reworking, but my other opinions must wait on other debates.

Edit: Whoops. Bad wording.

Edit2: correcting punctuation in previous edit. =/


(Last edited by Tamarin Calanis on 07-02-05 07:56 PM)
Reno









Since: 07-18-05
From: Above the Law.

Since last post: 4800 days
Last activity: 4653 days
Posted on 07-19-05 12:14 AM Link | Quote
I'm only for the death penality as a punishment for Rape and unjustified Murder. It's rediculous to give the death penality to someone who sell Marijuana. However, I believe that all cases in which the death panality should be rocksolid with clear evidence, people have been executed after being wrongly convicted many a time.
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