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11-16-18 02:22 AM
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Xeogaming Forums - Debate Shrine - The Fair Tax | |
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What do you think of it?
I agree with it.
 
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I disagree with it.
 
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I don't really care.   0.0%, 0 vote
Multi-voting is disabled. 6 users have voted.

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Lord Vulkas Mormonus

Vile
High Xeodent of Xeomerica.








Since: 10-29-04
From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way

Since last post: 324 days
Last activity: 50 days
Posted on 10-17-05 03:55 PM Link | Quote
I don't know if many of you are informed about what I'm talking about, so I'll explain.

The "Fair tax" was an idea made by Congessman John Linder, and a political writer called Neal Boortz, for the US national taxes. The general idea is to get rid of all of the current taxes, and simply transfer it to sales tax. The sales tax would be about 22%. Also, the goverment would calculate how much money it would take for someone to pay for the basic necceseties of life, and give them the amount of taxes they would have for it.

However, the prices for these products would go down, as the companies would no longer have to pay all that normal amount of money involved in tradeing or otherwise. It would also make it so that the "rich" and the "poor" would have to pay the same, in porportion to what they have.

So, what are all of your opinions on this, and are there any questions about it?
Astrophel
Fear will kill your mind and steal your love as sure as anything;
Fear will rob you blind and make you numb to others suffering









Since: 10-03-04
From: Azul Lux Orbital, Kirin Beta

Since last post: 282 days
Last activity: 120 days
Posted on 10-17-05 07:41 PM Link | Quote
It's an interesting concept. But, the price drop doesn't account for foreign companies, as they'll still have taxes and the prices will not be able to drop, therefore the sales tax would essentially fuck them over horribly.

An interesting concept, however.
Lord Vulkas Mormonus

Vile
High Xeodent of Xeomerica.








Since: 10-29-04
From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way

Since last post: 324 days
Last activity: 50 days
Posted on 10-17-05 08:41 PM Link | Quote
Yeah, but this is only to effect the US. Other countries would still get the same things as before, only a lower price from the US countries who wouldn't have to pay all that other tax.

avatar of law

Beezo








Since: 12-29-04
From: paris, canada

Since last post: 3569 days
Last activity: 3569 days
Posted on 10-17-05 10:36 PM Link | Quote
i'm gonna have'ta say if it does happen, a whole mess of other crap will happen as a result. there's a million things a person can do to abuse this no tax deal. like the rich can make millions by selling things, and not buy anything. if they dont buy anything, they dont have'ta "pay taxes." in theory, they can buy food and all that and write it off as business expenses. it's a stupid idea if you ask me. if it aint broken, dont fix it...
Astrophel
Fear will kill your mind and steal your love as sure as anything;
Fear will rob you blind and make you numb to others suffering









Since: 10-03-04
From: Azul Lux Orbital, Kirin Beta

Since last post: 282 days
Last activity: 120 days
Posted on 10-17-05 11:34 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Vulkar
Yeah, but this is only to effect the US. Other countries would still get the same things as before, only a lower price from the US countries who wouldn't have to pay all that other tax.




Which is the exact problem. There's no exemptions on sales tax, to my knowledge, in regards to which country the goods originated in. Therefore, they'd still have to charge full price to make a profit, AND the added sales tax... no one would buy anything from them because they wouldn't be able to afford it.

Because, you know, not everything sold in the US comes from here. You appear to be missing that.
Lord Vulkas Mormonus

Vile
High Xeodent of Xeomerica.








Since: 10-29-04
From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way

Since last post: 324 days
Last activity: 50 days
Posted on 10-18-05 07:06 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by avatar of law
i'm gonna have'ta say if it does happen, a whole mess of other crap will happen as a result. there's a million things a person can do to abuse this no tax deal. like the rich can make millions by selling things, and not buy anything. if they dont buy anything, they dont have'ta "pay taxes." in theory, they can buy food and all that and write it off as business expenses. it's a stupid idea if you ask me. if it aint broken, dont fix it...


No, the goverment figure out the amount you need for basic neccesities. In other words, the equivaalent of a hamburger for each meal. We would most likely never even enter four digits for the tax refunds.

Also, if the "rich" makes millions by selling things, then those people who bought it would still have to pay the taxes.

Also, there is no bussiness expenses, if anything is bought, or anything is sold here in the US, then 22% of it goes to the goverment. It doesn't matter if it's done bussiness to bussiness, or bussiness to store if this plan is carried out. Everything that is registered as sold will be taxed. A simple person to person payment however, or in buying used things, then there will not be taxes, as that used product would have already been taxed once, and will not be taxed again.
avatar of law

Beezo








Since: 12-29-04
From: paris, canada

Since last post: 3569 days
Last activity: 3569 days
Posted on 10-18-05 07:48 PM Link | Quote
but yeah, like i said, in theory if the rich ppl only sold things and never buy anything, then they wont have to pay taxes. and even if you are right about everything, how would the rich and poor have the same tax rates in porportion to what they have? you can still be a high profiled lawyer or actor making millions, and still buy cheap 99 cent stuff a person on welfare buys. that doesnt seem porportion to what he makes....


(Last edited by avatar of law on 10-18-05 10:49 PM)
Elara

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Since: 08-15-04
From: Ferelden

Since last post: 6 days
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Posted on 10-19-05 01:15 AM Link | Quote
I think it's a bad idea for one main reason: human nature.

People will just go to Mexico or Canada to buy the same products without the high sales tax. It saves them money, and that is all people care about.
geeogree

Ninji








Since: 10-19-04

Since last post: 2977 days
Last activity: 1126 days
Posted on 10-19-05 01:56 AM Link | Quote
what they really should do is the reverse of what you are suggesting....

instead of taxing every good and service out there.... tax people on their income, and then leave the rest of the stuff untaxed....

so, I want something, I look at the price and it is the stated price, not adding on 6% or 4% for taxes.... that's annoying...

that way... what you get "after tax" on your paycheck is actually the money you have to spend.... not 94% of it after you pay taxes on all the other stuff you're going to buy....

although, it doesn't really solve much of a problem, other than it makes taxing simpler
avatar of law

Beezo








Since: 12-29-04
From: paris, canada

Since last post: 3569 days
Last activity: 3569 days
Posted on 10-20-05 09:58 PM Link | Quote
well... geeogree if they dont tax anything except your paycheck... then what's left for the states and county/city? that's why we have so much tax... we gotta pay for city, if it has one, the county, if it has one, state, and federal tax. if they only take it from your income, then all those others wont get anything.

i think instead of saying 99 cents plus tax... we should do what the french do... write the price with the tax included, so we dont have to do the guessing game.

but yeah... it's seriously hard to change this so everyone stated above will get a good share.
Elara

Divine Mamkute
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Chaos Imp
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Ms. Invisable








Since: 08-15-04
From: Ferelden

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 6 days
Posted on 10-21-05 02:17 AM Link | Quote
I see what Geeogree is saying though. Just take all the tax out of the paycheck at the start. The state, the city, county, and federal. It's gonna be taken away anyways, so why not ensure that it gets paid and then you have the whole rest of the check to spend and you never have to worry about taxes on things you buy?
Lord Vulkas Mormonus

Vile
High Xeodent of Xeomerica.








Since: 10-29-04
From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way

Since last post: 324 days
Last activity: 50 days
Posted on 10-21-05 05:29 PM Link | Quote
Well, if we followed the Fair Tax, then yes, the actual price, including taxes will be by law, included.

But anyway, I agree that it could be abused, but which is cheaper, paying shipping from another country, paying that countries trade tax, or paying an actra 22%?

Honestly, then if something is really that expensive, then people would be paying more for shipping, than for the tax.
Astrophel
Fear will kill your mind and steal your love as sure as anything;
Fear will rob you blind and make you numb to others suffering









Since: 10-03-04
From: Azul Lux Orbital, Kirin Beta

Since last post: 282 days
Last activity: 120 days
Posted on 10-22-05 01:42 PM Link | Quote
... has it occurred to anyone that I wasn't referring to importing things?

Let's use, I dunno, a video game for the fictional example. This game was made in Japan by a small Japanese company. It sells really well over in Japan, so they translate it to English and ship it over here. They would already have to charge about the same price they'd be charging now, with our current taxes, because they still have THEIR taxes over in Japan to deal with (note that I know nothing of their tax system; just bear with me here). Let's say they sell their game for $60 in the US. Now, there's a US company that made a game. They don't have these other taxes to deal with, which lowers their expenses notably, so they sell the game for $40.

Now, right there is a $20 difference. But all of this is BEFORE tax.

Price, after tax, for the US-made game: $48.80

Price, after tax, for the Japan-made game: $73.20

So, we're left with overall a damn-near 25-dollar difference that the Japanese company couldn't hope to avoid. What'll your average consumer do?


Now, bear in mind that it was just an example, and I'd bet that a few figures were exaggerated. But you obviously didn't see what I was talking about before, so I had no choice.
avatar of law

Beezo








Since: 12-29-04
From: paris, canada

Since last post: 3569 days
Last activity: 3569 days
Posted on 10-22-05 10:58 PM Link | Quote
i know it's just an example.... but japanese games are well worth more than american games anyways
Lord Vulkas Mormonus

Vile
High Xeodent of Xeomerica.








Since: 10-29-04
From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way

Since last post: 324 days
Last activity: 50 days
Posted on 10-24-05 07:19 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Tamarin Calanis

Now, right there is a $20 difference. But all of this is BEFORE tax.

Price, after tax, for the US-made game: $48.80

Price, after tax, for the Japan-made game: $73.20

So, we're left with overall a damn-near 25-dollar difference that the Japanese company couldn't hope to avoid. What'll your average consumer do?hr>


Well, as the Japanese company wouldn't have to pay the tax for trading between companies, it would probably be a lot lower than you say.

Also, these japanese games, unless it is a japanese only store, wouldn't need to add the sales tax. The way this usually works is that the store buys the game(sales tax is not included in a company to company level, at least if the Fair Tax is enabled), and then the store sells the game, with no neccesary added sales tax, except for the buyer.

The only sales taxes that are included are company to person, or vice versa. It's all quite simple really.
Astrophel
Fear will kill your mind and steal your love as sure as anything;
Fear will rob you blind and make you numb to others suffering









Since: 10-03-04
From: Azul Lux Orbital, Kirin Beta

Since last post: 282 days
Last activity: 120 days
Posted on 10-24-05 02:17 PM Link | Quote
I KNOW what you're saying. You don't get what I'm saying.

Japanese company has Japanese taxes to pay. This automatically inflates the price of the game (or rather, leaves it at what it is now). Therefore, they'll already be selling for more than an America-made game. Then when someone buys the game, they have to pay the extra tax - but when there's so many less-expensive games, what do you think the average person is going to do?

Therefore, the Japanese company is verifiably fucked as far as selling in America goes.
Lord Vulkas Mormonus

Vile
High Xeodent of Xeomerica.








Since: 10-29-04
From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way

Since last post: 324 days
Last activity: 50 days
Posted on 10-24-05 02:45 PM Link | Quote
No, I regret to say it was the other way around.

I'll give an example:

Japan decides to seel some of its games in America. So, it goes so that it would be sold at Wal-Mart. Technically, Wal Mart is buying the games from Japan, tax free. So, it could still be sold to Wal-Mart at the usual $50 dollar price, without the American sales tax being payed by the Japanese company.

Astrophel
Fear will kill your mind and steal your love as sure as anything;
Fear will rob you blind and make you numb to others suffering









Since: 10-03-04
From: Azul Lux Orbital, Kirin Beta

Since last post: 282 days
Last activity: 120 days
Posted on 10-24-05 02:54 PM Link | Quote
*groans*

But the American companies have less taxes, so the Wal*Mart will be paying less to them to buy the games. Of course, this doesn't exactly mean that Wal*Mart would charge less, but they could - and to attract more business, they might.
Lord Vulkas Mormonus

Vile
High Xeodent of Xeomerica.








Since: 10-29-04
From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way

Since last post: 324 days
Last activity: 50 days
Posted on 10-24-05 03:00 PM Link | Quote
Of course Wal-Mart would try to sell it for less, and I admit that the Japanese wouldn't get the full amount that they would normally, as Wal-Mart would buy it for about $10 dollars less, but at least Japan would still have the ability for bussiness.
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