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11-16-18 12:51 PM
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Xeogaming Forums - Debate Shrine - So, why do Non-believers got to Hell? | |
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The Accidental Protege

Iggy Koopa
"I'm your accidental protege...
The gift, the blood, the thrownaway..."










Since: 03-08-05
From: Marching on the city of Southern Cross

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Posted on 07-06-06 01:45 AM Link | Quote
It has been claimed by many religious leaders of the Christian groups, predominantly Protestant, Catholics and Baptists that all people are loved and respected by God. However, this point is apparently contradicted by the fact that non-believers will go to hell for an eternity of punishment for not believing. An example is Sodom and Gomorrah.
So, if good, non-believing people are loved by God as well, then why does Hell even exist for them, regardless of the fact that they'd go there anyway?
Xeoman

Wizzrobe
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Since: 08-14-04
From: 255

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Posted on 07-06-06 01:49 AM Link | Quote
An iffy and sketchy subject for me, being a born and raised Christian.

The question I have posed sometimes (well, just to myself I guess) ... is what about people out there, who will never get the chance to learn about religion, the Bible, Jesus for that matter? Poor people, or people without civilizations around them. Its like ... automatically for them.

I don't know, hard to discuss this I guess.
(that or I'm too tired right now)

Edit: Ah, 'Retreats'. Yeah, but still.


(Last edited by Racer Xeo on 07-06-06 04:51 AM)
avatar of law

Beezo








Since: 12-29-04
From: paris, canada

Since last post: 3570 days
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Posted on 07-06-06 04:06 AM Link | Quote
because it's a simple rule for the success of any religion/cult.
Shuyin

Baron of Radical








Since: 08-19-04

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Posted on 07-06-06 05:17 AM Link | Quote
I thought Sodom and Gomorrah were turned to salt because they were gay? sodom(y)
FX

Zombie Marco








Since: 03-24-06

Since last post: 1632 days
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Posted on 07-06-06 01:52 PM Link | Quote
first of all, it is one of many huge plotholes in all religions

second, to adress the question of ppl that are unaware i shall respond with a joke/story:

When the missionaries were first going to Hawaii, they were telling the natives about the word of Jesus. They said that if anybody didnt believe in Jesus, then they were going to hell. One of the natives asked the missionary,

"What if you have never heard of Jesus?"

The missionary replied, "Then you won't go to hell."

"Thanks...."

does that make sense?
Xeoman

Wizzrobe
Administrator








Since: 08-14-04
From: 255

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 3 days
Posted on 07-06-06 02:27 PM Link | Quote
A joke perhaps, but I don't think there's really any "written" reference to something like that, in the Bible or whatever.
Lord Vulkas Mormonus

Vile
High Xeodent of Xeomerica.








Since: 10-29-04
From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way

Since last post: 325 days
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Posted on 07-07-06 03:02 PM Link | Quote
I'm going to find myself agreeing. It doesn't make sense for them to go to Hell because of simple beliefs. As a matter of fact, it is a strongly misunderstood thing in the scriptures. You see, the bible has gone through many retranslations, deliberate editing by corrupt priests to match more with their beliefs, and a lot of things being cut out. Thus, there are parts missing.

The way I, and the rest of my religion, see it, there are two Hells mentioned in the bible. They mention the Hell for unbelievers, where people go for not believing in Christ. Here is not a situation of endless torment and unhappiness, rather, it is where people are taught of Christ, and then brought up to heaven.

Then there is another Hell, which people can be put into after they have been converted to Christianity. Here it will be based on morality, and on the following of God's commandments, as far as they know of them. Which means, if you don't know of a commandment, it is not a sin to disobey. This Hell is the place of endless torment and unhappiness always mentioned in the bible.
avatar of law

Beezo








Since: 12-29-04
From: paris, canada

Since last post: 3570 days
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Posted on 07-07-06 03:43 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Vulcanlogic

The way I, and the rest of my religion, see it, there are two Hells mentioned in the bible. They mention the Hell for unbelievers, where people go for not believing in Christ. Here is not a situation of endless torment and unhappiness, rather, it is where people are taught of Christ, and then brought up to heaven.

Then there is another Hell, which people can be put into after they have been converted to Christianity. Here it will be based on morality, and on the following of God's commandments, as far as they know of them. Which means, if you don't know of a commandment, it is not a sin to disobey. This Hell is the place of endless torment and unhappiness always mentioned in the bible.


i dont think you explained it right.

First, you said, the second hell is for people to be put into after they have been converted. so after the first hell, they teach you everything, only to send you to another hell, even though you siad they'd be brought to heaven?

second, you said, it's not a sin if you dont know it's one of the commandments. why wouldnt you know? i thought you were already taught them from the previous hell? and if you're not punished by not knowing, where does the eternal torment come into play?

and lastly, i agree, that first place where they teach you christ, would be hell.


(Last edited by avatar of law on 07-07-06 06:45 PM)
True Flight

The One








Since: 08-21-04

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Posted on 07-07-06 07:16 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Machiavellism
I thought Sodom and Gomorrah were turned to salt because they were gay? sodom(y)

No because they commited the seven deadly sins...

Anyway people believe in this factor because they need something to actually strengthen their egos, selves, and what not. To be quite honest religion is nothing but a scape goat for some. Another reason people believe in what they believe is because they would rather achieve the greater happiness, utopia, and what not with help. It also sets a moral standard as well.

If you look at it this way a religion is nothing more than a helper, a guide, or a wanting to belong. Another thing is that people tend to be of a weaker mindset and cannot raise themselves with their own morals and standards.
Drizzt

Berserker
You put a bullet in my head, Till black turns to red! This could all end in tragedy!








Since: 08-20-04
From: Read "Real Name"

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Posted on 07-08-06 03:15 AM Link | Quote
What way is the best to get someone to convert to your religion/cult other than fear. If a priest or a church going person tells a non-believer that if they do not start going to church that there going to a horible place when they die.

Christianity has been using this method for years. In the middle ages where people were more prone to supersticians and would believe those types of things..

I dont know exactly where im going with this..

I will edit in more in the morning when I get some sleep and can think more..
Lord Vulkas Mormonus

Vile
High Xeodent of Xeomerica.








Since: 10-29-04
From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way

Since last post: 325 days
Last activity: 50 days
Posted on 07-08-06 01:49 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by avatar of law
Originally posted by Vulcanlogic

The way I, and the rest of my religion, see it, there are two Hells mentioned in the bible. They mention the Hell for unbelievers, where people go for not believing in Christ. Here is not a situation of endless torment and unhappiness, rather, it is where people are taught of Christ, and then brought up to heaven.

Then there is another Hell, which people can be put into after they have been converted to Christianity. Here it will be based on morality, and on the following of God's commandments, as far as they know of them. Which means, if you don't know of a commandment, it is not a sin to disobey. This Hell is the place of endless torment and unhappiness always mentioned in the bible.


i dont think you explained it right.

First, you said, the second hell is for people to be put into after they have been converted. so after the first hell, they teach you everything, only to send you to another hell, even though you siad they'd be brought to heaven?

second, you said, it's not a sin if you dont know it's one of the commandments. why wouldnt you know? i thought you were already taught them from the previous hell? and if you're not punished by not knowing, where does the eternal torment come into play?

and lastly, i agree, that first place where they teach you christ, would be hell.


I suppose I'm going to have to go into yet more detail. As you wish, though I've explained it multiple times.

The first Hell: You are taught to believe in Christ, and you get babtised in His church. After that, you go and teach others until Christ comes to earth. He will stay for a thousand years, and all will be converted. Then there will be the judgement, where people will be placed into one of three kingdoms.

Celestial, the glory of the sun: Yuo go here if you have obeyed the commandments to the best of your knowledge. This has three levels, and if you are sent into the celestial kingdom, you can progress up two of the levels, the top one being Godhood, which you can only reach if you have married.

Terrestrial, glory of the moon: This is the medium. They are not good enough to enter cellestial glory, but not bad enough to enter telestial. This still has some degree of glory and happiness.

Telestial: Murderers, corruption, evil. That is where some of the worst are put...assumign that they do not know God is real. Suprisingly, even this has a degree of glory and happiness, though lower than Celestial or Terrestrial. Joseph Smith, the founder of our church, and a prophet had a vision, and he says that if the human race knew even this kingdoms degree of glory, they would kill themselves to get their quicker.

But there is a fourth place, not a kingdom, but where the worst of the worst go.

Outer darkness: It is extremely hard to come here. Only if you have had a vision, or know that God lives is it even possible to come here. If you do know, then you must lie, claim the church is false despite your knowledge. Yuo can only go here if you lead people away from what you know to be true, that is, God.

As for knowledge of the sin, I was refering of knowing that when they actually commit it. I know that there are commandments that I do not know of, thus, if I disobey them, then I will not be held guilty for it.

Gah, you made me go into a lot of detail this time.
Stitch

Mr. Bright
Dr. Thread Killa, to you.
Look, I'm an ass sometimes. Get over it.








Since: 08-20-04
From: Manhattan, NYC, ASA, Terran

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Posted on 07-08-06 04:47 PM Link | Quote
But, if you're a non-believer, why would you go to a place that you don't believe in in the first place?

In order for me to go to hell, I'd have to believe in it. I don't. In order to do anything after death, I'd have to believe in it as well. My only belief is the Buddhist reincarnation, and nothing more.

So, I shall return, don't know when, don't know where, don't know as what. But, I've been doing that for several thousand years already, so I don't really care what happens now or in my next lifespan.
avatar of law

Beezo








Since: 12-29-04
From: paris, canada

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Posted on 07-09-06 03:59 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Zabuza
But, if you're a non-believer, why would you go to a place that you don't believe in in the first place?

In order for me to go to hell, I'd have to believe in it. I don't. In order to do anything after death, I'd have to believe in it as well. My only belief is the Buddhist reincarnation, and nothing more.


yeah but, the thing is, the reason why you would go to hell is, because their religion is SUPREME, and the ONE true religion... -.-'

anywho, one can always believe in science! so Scientology gooooo!
Stitch

Mr. Bright
Dr. Thread Killa, to you.
Look, I'm an ass sometimes. Get over it.








Since: 08-20-04
From: Manhattan, NYC, ASA, Terran

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Posted on 07-09-06 08:33 AM Link | Quote
Scientology is not science. Don't ever make that association again.

But, even if their one religion just happens to be one of the worldwide, larger religions, why would I go to hell if I don't believe in the damned concept to begin with? Your justification only makes sense to people whom possess a degree of religious belief.

I don't.

I may believe in science, but I have my reincarnation beliefs as well. Whether I believe them 100% and all the time, that's up to me. That isn't always the case, though.

And, Scientology is a pseudo-religion created by L. Ron Hubbard to win a bet. He was an okay science fiction writer. Had some good ones, and had some horrible ones. But, his religion is not science. Don't you ever make that assumption or association again.
Xeoman

Wizzrobe
Administrator








Since: 08-14-04
From: 255

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Posted on 07-09-06 03:16 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by avatar of law
Originally posted by Zabuza
But, if you're a non-believer, why would you go to a place that you don't believe in in the first place?

In order for me to go to hell, I'd have to believe in it. I don't. In order to do anything after death, I'd have to believe in it as well. My only belief is the Buddhist reincarnation, and nothing more.


yeah but, the thing is, the reason why you would go to hell is, because their religion is SUPREME, and the ONE true religion... -.-'

anywho, one can always believe in science! so Scientology gooooo!


With the "goooo!" written after "so Scientology" I'm going to assume you were being sarcastic.

That or I really hope you were.

Zabuza: You kind of made me laugh.


(Last edited by Racer Xeo on 07-09-06 06:17 PM)
avatar of law

Beezo








Since: 12-29-04
From: paris, canada

Since last post: 3570 days
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Posted on 07-09-06 05:15 PM Link | Quote
i was trying to say that, you would go to hell, because their religion is Supreme, as in, it's real, it's true. if the religion is real, as everyone believes it, then it doesnt matter if you dont believe in it. you';; go to hell anyways.

i'm just saying if it's real of course, but obv it's not -.-' because scientology is the one true religion.


(Last edited by avatar of law on 07-09-06 08:15 PM)
Stitch

Mr. Bright
Dr. Thread Killa, to you.
Look, I'm an ass sometimes. Get over it.








Since: 08-20-04
From: Manhattan, NYC, ASA, Terran

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Posted on 07-09-06 06:21 PM Link | Quote
But it hasn't been proven that it's real or true. Just like all other religions. Just because it is the most universally abundant does not make it supreme. Not at all.

If I were to be in their religious thought bubble, then by their accounts I go to hell. As a satanist, I go to their version of hell, but that's a good thing. As who I am, I am put in limbo and reincarnated at some point. No heaven; no hell. The reincarnation determines whether I was a good or bad person in a past life. To come back as a beetle or animal would be a bad thing. To come back as human, good.

But, you're missing the point of this thread. If one doesn't believe (like me), then why would I go to a place that I don't believe exists?
avatar of law

Beezo








Since: 12-29-04
From: paris, canada

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Posted on 07-09-06 07:43 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Zabuza

But, you're missing the point of this thread. If one doesn't believe (like me), then why would I go to a place that I don't believe exists?


i'm not missing the point at all. just because you dont believe in it, doesnt mean by default you wont get sent there was my point.
FX

Zombie Marco








Since: 03-24-06

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Posted on 07-09-06 08:40 PM Link | Quote
just because you dont believe in it, doesnt mean it doesnt exist. Im not saying it does but....
Ryan

Ptooie
Is back!









Since: 10-01-04
From: Stafford, UK

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Posted on 07-10-06 11:35 AM Link | Quote
I do not believe in god, heaven or hell. (OH NOES I'M GOING TO HELL! )

I too believe in reincarnation for one reason only: I do not like the idea that you live on earth for 60-80 or so years and are then put into either a great or a horrid place. Well... That and hell isn't proven.

I do not believe in hell, and as such I'm not scared of going into hell if it does exist. So those who believe in a religion that says non believers go to hell, because I don't particularly care.
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