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| Elara Posts: 4910/9736 |
So yeah. It passed as you all should have heard. I went to the protest in Long Beach last week. It was one of the smallest ones, but it had over 2000 people and started with a text message the day before so I consider it a big success. It was amazing to see so many people and all of the support that we got. |
| Shuyin Posts: 1771/1858 |
I got through a minute of it. Then I decided it was a waste of my time. I'll just get pissed and there's no point in that. Blind religious prattle gets on my nerves. |
| Ryan Posts: 1621/1748 |
On a somewhat related subject:
This guy's talking about how God spoke to him, telling him to warn everyone about homosexuality and lust sins, and to help you get over them. I got four minutes in, and came up with this: Gays are born that way – Spoken in a ‘obviously untrue’ tone – Actual evidence over this yet to be discovered. Lusts/addiction unnatural – If it wasn’t natural, it wouldn’t exist. “I’ll tell you the truth” – Talking from the perspective of an unproven religious zealot who thinks all people who believe in evolution believe that we came from the rocks and salt water. Needs to open his own eyes a little and delving further into other’s beliefs before bashing them. Can’t see the germs on your hand, the air, electricity, microwaves etc. – All can be detected in some way other than a ‘sixth sense’ which seems to be how God communicates, a sense which I personally have never had tickled, not noticeably anyway. Asking god... Firmly I think? – Why does a God who loves us so much make himself so hidden? Our fault for being tempted by the devil – Again, an unproven existence used to keep people in fear of doing bad. Become lustful from seeing images constantly – Occasional surfer of 4chan, has seen a LOT of gruesome images thanks to it and other people from there, has yet to require them for sexual purposes. Transfer of spirits – So spirits can be transferred over TV/Radio waves? Hanging around with gay people – Personally I’ve got about five or six gay friends on my MSN list, a few of whom I do talk to regularly. I’m perfectly straight myself, and I’ve known these people for months now. “Be careful who you hang around with” – My own lusts do not stem from hanging around with people with similar mindsets. I’m not ashamed to say I’m a macrophile, and that developed on its own from a very young age. Nothing really sparked it off, as I didn't watch many things with giants in except Honey I Shrunk the Kids and Honey I Blew up the Kid. Oh, and the BFG. “Hang around with anime fans” – Viewing things quite critically can prevent this occurrence of “I like it ‘cause they like it.” Personally, I’ve only liked three animes, two of which due to recommendations by anime fans. Another twenty recommendations fell flat as I didn’t like them.” If I've managed to overcome defending gay rights, talk to gay people and combined that with everything else up there, I think it's safe to say that, in my case anyway, I'm not just gay because I know/talk to gay people. I'd like to think I'm straight anyway, considering I've only been attracted to members of the opposite sex.  |
| Cairoi Posts: 3186/3807 |
Originally posted by Elara Humanity: The wonderful species that starts smart and ages stupid. |
| Elara Posts: 4908/9736 |
I haven't heard any adds backed by Mormons yet, unless they are going by another name... I keep hearing Knights of Columbus and some organization for the "protection of marriage and families".
I read an article in a magazine the other day. The author actually asked his 9 year old daughter about all the stuff that these adds say and her response was that gay marriage had no effect on her and people that opposed it were "stupid". While saying that her judgement was a bit harsh he then asked her what she felt about the whole prop 8 issue. Her answer was basically that gays had the right to marry and that if people had a problem with it then they had to deal with it, this is America. People are supposed to be equal in America. |
| Cairoi Posts: 3185/3807 |
Originally posted by Rogue Mormons? The dudes who got in trouble for marrying too many people? Sounds like the dude at the frat party who gets ten times more smashed than everyone else just to fit in but ends up making a fool of himself. |
| Shuyin Posts: 1759/1858 |
This made me laugh. It does bring up a good point though.
As if teaching gay marriage will make kids gay |
| Rogue Posts: 4818/11918 |
Actually a VAST majority of the Prop 8 support is coming from the Church of Latter Day Saints. Mormons are making up most of the attendance at the pro-Prop 8/gay marriage ban rallies.
A friend posted this on her LJ: A "No" vote on Proposition 8 will annul no marriages. A "Yes" vote on Proposition 8 will put over 10,000 marriages in legal limbo. Which vote is really protecting marriage? I just feel it's completely wrong to amend the state's Constitution to TAKE AWAY a right. If they're going to start this they can start taking away the rights of others for varying things. It's not about gay marriage any more. It's about equality and choosing to take the right of those away whose lifestyle you don't agree with. What if the State suddenly decides that marriage between immigrants and citizens is bad? That takes my parents out. Though my mom was a citizen when she and my dad got married, she's not from this country. They could use this sort of thing to make it so illegals don't try to avoid deportation by paying someone to marry them, or just finding a willing party for it. Still... taking away rights to satisfy a silly notion. If this passes, you'll be sorry. |
| Elara Posts: 4901/9736 |
A big thing I have noticed with all the pro-prop 8 adds is that ALL of them have been funded by the Knights of Columbus (a Catholic organization). Also that most of it is utter bullshit... they are even claiming chuches will lose their tax exempt status if the bill passes... comeplete lies.
On my personal believes, saying that a gay couple does not have the right to get married or the right to adopt/have children is in effect relgating them to a status of second-class citizenry and that is absolutely wrong. People say that "oh they have civil unions, it's the same thing" but as we have learned in the past seperate is not equal and I feel that is true in all cases. My mother keeps going on about it being unnatural and not in the Bible and all that, yet as I have pointed out to her time after time, how can you make that claim when there is documented evidence of homosexuality since the beginning of recorded history? There were gay people before the Bible was written, before the Torah was written. Jews didn't like it because it was culturally accepted by their oppressors (Egyptians, Greeks, Romans) and so they associated it with them in the list of "things that are bad" and thus the non-acceptance of homosexuality has passed down to us today. But I digress. The United States is supposed to be a free country, we do not have a state religion nor should we. Marriage has long been more of a social/legal thing than a religious thing and the reason that it has become so engrained in the church was because they were usually the legal officials that performed it in the past (Middle Ages, etc). However, how many times have you read about marriages being arranged for the benefit of the families involved? Marriage for love is a very recent thing, and it is precious for that reason. Now, with the myth that marriage is the domain of the church dispelled let us look at it clearly... it is a binding legal contract, basically equivalent to a business merger agreement. That is all that it is. Now, if two people wish to enter into this legal contract, why stop them? If two people have the means to support and raise a child in a loving and nurturing environment, why prevent it? What is so much better about being raised by a penis and a vagina than two of the same set? I have known many people raised by gay parents and they are perfectly fine and feel that they upbringing was no different than that of any of their friends. As for teaching it to them in schools, I think the goal of it is to promote tolerance of it. I don't think that they are going to start any earlier than they should, since children have to reach a certain age before they can understand such a concept as marriage in the first place. But really it is no different than teaching them that some people have different skin color, but that does not make them different from you and me, and that is okay. |
| Cyro Xero Posts: 1526/1779 |
Well, teaching kids about gay marriages in school doesn't sound like it's a good idea to me. That might be something they should find out and ask about themselves. |
| Ryan Posts: 1612/1748 |
What's next? Teaching of the theory of evolution in schools? We can't let mere theories take over the only true science on the subject, Intelligent Design! |
| FX Posts: 3533/3775 |
They're right. How DARE schools teach children tolerance and understanding! |
| Cyro Xero Posts: 1523/1779 |
Originally posted by Shuyin I'm sure you know that particular concept falls under another concept, but let's not get to that. |
| Ryan Posts: 1611/1748 |
Yet I can bet any money that it's working because a whole bunch of idiots will not actually look into the problem, and will only watch these two adverts for their sources of information. |
| Rogue Posts: 4784/11918 |
For some reason the ads for Prop 8 are claiming that should it pass they're going to change education in schools telling kids that the only true marriage is between a man and a woman.
Uh... Here's one of the ads that's starting to get attention: Where in the world did they get such ideas as gay marriage being taught in schools and churches losing tax exemption? That's pure scare tactic, my friends. |
| Cteno Posts: 567/3416 |
To quote Family Guy somewhat, we should let homosexuals get married and become miserable like the rest of us.
One of my best friends had a baby before he was married and every time I see him and his girlfriend, they're fighting. I would rather have two homosexuals who love each other raise a child than have a child live with two bickering adults because that would stick with them forever. Also, I really hate it when people say, "Oh, if a gay couple have kids, they'll turn out gay too!". Umm, don't straight couples' kids turn out gay sometimes? |
| FX Posts: 3522/3775 |
Also, don't forget the second sentence in the Declaration of Independence: "All men are created equal." I do believe that includes gay men... |
| Shuyin Posts: 1744/1858 |
Vulkar I get what you're trying to say. Marriage is important in raising children. I think everyone agrees on that.
Being brought up by a father and a mother may be the best choice in raising a child, but that's merely by default. Many children turn out just fine while being raised by a single parent. A gay couple would be able to give more nurturing to a child then a single parent. Many heterosexual couples are completely unfit to have kids. With homosexuals, there's no accidents. You have a child because you WANT a child. So they're more likely to put that child first in everything that they do. If two people can get married on a whim and then get a divorce a month later. Why can't a gay couple who is honestly in love and have been together for years get the same right? I don't see how anyone can look at that as fair. The saying maybe be trite but it's true: "If you don't like gay marriage, don't get one." |
| Ryan Posts: 1607/1748 |
Maybe the law saying the woman is forced to have the kids if not married should be taken away, since it's technically sexist.
And surely if a permanent relationship REQUIRES a legal document that says "If this doesn't work out, we've made it difficult to seperate, and means I can load you with the kids and get half your stuff." Surely this breaks a big trust that is generally required in such a relationship. |
| Lord Vulkas Mormonus Posts: 3149/4541 |
So, I had a long post written out which argued point by point everything you all said...and then I accidenly deleted it. Evil. I'll try to retype it later this afternoon.
But Ryan, marriage is important if only for the children, to dictate who they're raised by, and in the vent of a seperation, who they go with to be raised by. No official document saying that the parents are together means that the children go with their mother, no matter how unfit the mother is. Also, there's a lot more things like child support, combined incomes, and, of course, a pledge that they bother have to be together. Also, a friend of mine served a two year mission in south america. In this mission, he encoutnered a group of people where the parents were not usually married, and the children were always being shuffled between parents, step parents, foster parent,s and generally whoever they happened to be near. Needless to say, they weren't raised properly. Now, I'm not saying that that's what it would turn into, but I'm just saying that marriage is important for legal matters, for children, and for the parents themselves. I'll type up the rest again later. |
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