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| True Flight Posts: 4415/5245 |
thank you elara and you're right rogue. Sadly the army is FULL of double standards.
This was the entire case study I got in a SASA (Sisterhood against sexual assault) conference. I didn't know I would be hearing everyone's sob story and what not there. In which I had to sit through all the autobiographies. Personally I didn't appreciate having to go to this thing because it was all girls and I opened my mouth and almost got punched.  Come on.
Oh and when you attend a conference you are officially a part of the SASA. fuck that. |
| Elara Posts: 6121/9736 |
Technically, by law, for it to be considered rape all the victim has to do is say "no" at any point during the encounter. However, like Rogue said, if she said no and it happened anyway, what exactly happened?
Also, like Rogue and Katana said, this is a very grey area where a real solution has not yet appeared. I don't even know if a happy medium can be reached. |
| Katana Posts: 3032/3649 |
Originally posted by Rogue Despite the fact that I agree with Rogue's entire post up there, this is pretty much the basic summary. It's a really strange line, and I suppose one of the things that makes it so difficult to tell is because there are sooo many variables to consider. So, the closer you are to the situation, the better, unfortunately. If we're going to go general on this topic, I'd pretty much elaborate or add to Rogue's points, but for this situation in particular, while I am not in the military, nor have do I know any of these people involved, I have heard of other instances quite similar to the one True presented from my friends and family among the military. What I wanna know is, how the double standard reverses itself. As Rogue has pointed out, actual victims get shit on, but in the military, people get away with crying wolf. Wtf? O_o Like attempting to solve one double standard isn't enough! |
| Rogue Posts: 6755/11918 |
No proof doesn't mean that rape didn't happen. Hearsay is more that the victim told someone else who then testified in court what they were told as though that exactly how it happened, as opposed to the victim doing it herself. The victim can give direct eyewitness testimony, as can the alleged rapist.
My boyfriend's sister was raped at a party a couple months ago. She was so mentally distraught that she waited three days to tell her mother, and by then the "evidence" had been washed away. She underwent an intense, embarrassing four-hour forensics exam and they couldn't find enough fluids to say that he had raped her. HOWEVER, in Arizona they allow for "confrontational" calls where the police were taping the call and she got him on the phone, admitting that he knew she was underage. That's the best they can do under such circumstances. In Sara's case, as well as the rapes that occurred at my city college back when I was on the paper there, the police insisted that the girls not report the crimes. With Sara, they kept insulting her, saying that it must have been consensual. Since I've complained about this enough around people who disagree with me, they argue this is because rape investigations are so brutal on the victim that in the end the victim won't testify at all. I honestly feel that THAT is bullshit. While I see their point, the criminal justice system is largely unfair to rape victims with criminal proceedings spending more time analyzing the background, behavior, and psychosis of the victim than the alleged assailant. Studies in several countries have shown that 2-3% of rape accusations are determined to be false (granted, that this is often at the opinion of the police), and one in every three women is sexually assaulted. By being this judgmental of victims, it prevents those who have been raped from stepping forward, reporting crimes against them, and ending the cycle of serial rapists and so on. It further sends a message to those who might commit these crimes that should they go ahead with them, they likely won't be punished. And this is not to discount men. Men are likely to be raped as well, and I do not believe they are one erection away from rape. Now in terms of your example: two people, one says no, and they do it anyway? I'm not entirely clear on what happened. Was the woman kicking and screaming throughout? Was she seduced? Did she change her mind? It's hypothetical, but so many details that come with her testimony could be factors in whether or we've got a sexual assault case on our hands. But then there's going back to this thread from nearly two years ago, where we discussed a man whom we've come to understand as being falsely accused. The accused can keep one of these I Love Me books with his testimony on file, can't he? I don't deny that false accusations occur. I went to high school with a girl who seemed to claim she was raped every week (similar situation to Nelrith). Second verse, same as the first, when I got to college. You just meet these types who almost act like it's a badge of honor because they're hungry for your sympathy. But all this managed to do was make it difficult for others to take rape accusations seriously. Regarding these women I knew in high school and college, none of them came forward and told the police what happened to them. Who knows, maybe they were raped each week by unknown, masked assailants in just about the same fashion as the ones the week before? Or maybe they didn't pull a knife this time, and one of them of just held her down while the other three went to town after then knocked her glasses off? How many vans/carloads of gang-raping masked men drive through Bellflower picking the same person up no matter where she is? Anyway, I feel that rape victims face unfair obstacles when they seek justice. I think it's a hasty generalization to say that women who claim rape and have a significant other are just making the accusation so they can have their cake and eat it too. I agree that it appears unfair that authorities seem to lean toward the female's side of the story, BUT I feel that here in the states, they try to stifle accusers as best they can. So what is there to do? Suffer in silence? |
| FX Posts: 3638/3775 |
There really is no way to investigate it, is there? In 99% of the cases you've just got the testimonies of the two people involved. |
| Cteno Posts: 1720/3416 |
I meant the female raping the male, by the way. I hate how there isn't any investigation whatsoever and it just goes by what one person says.
It's on the same level as back in high school, one of the campus monitors was accused of raping one of the sluttiest girls at school. The shitty part? Whether or not he was proven guilty, he lost that job instantly simply for being accused and everybody looked at him differently for it. He ended up pleading guilty in court because everybody was against him and the sentence would have otherwise been incredibly extreme. To this day I still don't believe he actually did it, mostly because the girl had cried wolf numerous times before and had bragged to her friends that nothing happened months after the sentence. Too little too late, I suppose. |
| True Flight Posts: 4381/5245 |
yet you didn't read the rest of it.
Yes SA crimes in the army are under the UCMJ as rape. HOWEVER where's the proof? This kind of case is not thrown out too. A case like this to me is total and complete bullshit after what I have seen in AIT. |
| Cteno Posts: 1719/3416 |
That can be equated to rape, in my opinion. |
| True Flight Posts: 4380/5245 |
This was something that I looked into and it was rather controversial at the conference I went to.
A female soldier goes to a male soldier's chu(quarters). The female soldier and the male soldier start to make out. The female soldier stops him and says she didn't want to have sex. The two have sex anyway and the case goes unreported. Can this be a sexual assault case? I said no because there's no proof and it's all here say. However the story was probably given by just the female. The male soldier had no say in giving his side of the story. Which is what we do automatically. We begin to side with the female. I have seen this while I was in Ft. Gordon. Men getting kicked out of the army for bullshit cases like these. Women (who have a relationship or are engaged) will spread their legs and give it up. They will come back to the drill sergeant saying they had been assaulted. The cases go through and she will have her significant other scot free with out being accused of anything (even though I'm one of the friends on the inside that knows what is going on) and the guy will pay by getting kicked out. I seriously believe that there are those BS cases out there where the female has lied about the guy and painted a nasty picture of him. Thoughts anyone? |
