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| 0 users currently in Debate Shrine. |
| User | Post |
| Cteno Posts: 1937/3416 |
That one is a bit, I guess. Not as bad though, not nearly. |
| Rogue Posts: 7179/11918 |
No, I was referring to the Dimmu Borgir video.
The first one's just shit force-fed to the masses as what all young men should have as their fantasy and how they should be treating women. |
| Cteno Posts: 1934/3416 |
Originally posted by Rogue The first video? It's nothing but immature chauvinism, at least the more modern usage of the word. |
| Rogue Posts: 7176/11918 |
Originally posted by Nelrith That is a good point since the whole bondage/sado-masochism culture is a whole different animal outside of feminism. The master and slave relationship is a two-way street, and often the submissive can be just as powerful as the dom. Anyway, it's arguable that this is what is presented or, for all we know, it was intended to be chauvinistic. |
| Cteno Posts: 1918/3416 |
I personally don't find women on leashes demeaning. In the BDSM community (I'm not a part of it, however, I know quite a few people who are), you aren't forced to wear a collar and leash, you choose to wear one. Like I said before, it's hardly demeaning if you choose it for yourself. |
| Rogue Posts: 7161/11918 |
Really, Bitmap. It all depends.
I mean, the metal world is completely different from the rap and hip-hop one. In metal you could have a topless woman riding an armored tiger tearing the shit out of zombies or something. And that would be empowering. In the case of that Dimmu Borgir video, I really don't know. I mean, you've got a girl on a leash there, but who knows? There's more of an artistic value to it, I suppose. This discussion makes me think of Manet's "Luncheon on the Grass." 
In its day it was under severe scrutiny for having naked women in the presence of fully-clothed men, but more contemporary art critics see it as more empowering than demeaning. Here, you see a woman, completely nude. She is not covered in layers upon layers of clothing, which would have been expected of her at the time. No, instead she sits there staring at the viewer with an amused look of, "I'm here, I'm naked. So the fuck what?" And just for fun here's SNL parodying misogynistic rap lyrics: |
| Bitmap Posts: 7040/7838 |
*Comic Post*
Originally posted by Rogue Here is something that will cook your noodle. Is showing your breasts in a metal music video empowering? |
| Astrophel Posts: 2305/2724 |
Originally posted by Rogue Depends. Are they doing it because they're that comfortable with and/or proud of their body, or because they desperately need the money for whatever reason and that happens to be a way to get some? (see also: strippers) ((not like that Xeo)) |
| Rogue Posts: 7159/11918 |
Originally posted by Nelrith That's an excellent point. I'm trying to figure out how this isn't demeaning. Back when I was in high school, I used to watch professional wrestling, and in that day they had the Godfather. The Godfather was an African-American man whose gimmick was pretty much that he was a pimp. Whenever he wrestled, he brought out a string of scantily-clad women, which he referred to as his "Ho Train." I remember remarking on the "Ho Train" to a few acquaintances in my classes, usually gym, and these girls would say things like, "I would LOVE to be a part of the Ho Train!!" When I'd be astonished and ask why, they'd answer that they were beautiful women and they would like to be seen as that and wanted and lusted over by strange men. Not to over-generalize, but these girls I knew were usually from urban environments and lower class families. So with that in mind, is shaking one's naked rear in a music video, by choice, empowering? |
| Cteno Posts: 1916/3416 |
I don't find the video demeaning in the sense of sexism, whomever was being "degraded" likely knew what they were getting paid for. What I find demeaning is that the BET crams garbage like this down the throats of black youths across the USA. Horrible role models in every possible way.
See Bill Cosby's "Pound Cake" speech for further elaboration. |
| Bitmap Posts: 7037/7838 |
Uhhh yeah?
What is to debate here? The only person who would defend this video are just very unfortunate people with a bad view on women and poor taste in music. The whole video is just ignorance. |
| Rogue Posts: 7158/11918 |
One of the people in my American Studies class was presenting on misogyny in rap and hip-hop and talked about how music videos for the genre typically depict women as "bitches" and "hos," referring to them either being domineering hags or sluts out for your money.
She showed us a few videos and mentioned a certain video by Nelly, but said it was too graphic for class. In it, you can see men using the "making it rain" gesture and even sliding a credit card in a girl's crack. The video can be seen below. Now, I do warn that the video is borderline pornographic. Most body parts are blurred out, but you still get the idea of what's going on. What are your thoughts on it? |
