Dark Vader
Posts: 50/335 |
Originally posted by Cyro Xero
Originally posted by Kaijin
In a real battle what would YOU want to do to defeat the other person. Pretend you got into a fist fight at school. You were going up against someone who could pound you, BUT, you know he has a soft soft spot somewhere. Wouldn't you want to find that weakness so you can win with out getting beaten down? Fighting, and sim battling too, isn't about just one thing. It's about a few. Finding a weakness is just one. Another is strategy- using clever tricks to outsmart your opponent to strike. Brute forrce is also a method, but one that's recommend only when you can do it with out getting too hurt yourself. If you're able to do it an entire fight then so be it.
When I fight, I don't give a damn about what anyone thinks is the fairest way to fight... I only think clean before or after a fight, never durring. Personally, I would not last long in a fight with very many people. Due to this, I look for the quickest way to drop my opponent. If that mean kicking him in the groin, that is what I do, the rules be damned. If I find a weakness, I exploit it to the fullest, if my opponent does not like me exploiting it, he/she needs to find a way to eliminate that weakness. Think of it as a game of football. If your offensive play devestates their defense, and you gain 20 yards, you hurry the ball, you don't let them call another defense. Maby call a fake audible to get them to shift around some. You use the same plays until they find a way to stop them, then you change to something else.
Xeios
Posts: 85/2954 |
I guess...lol. I just noticed they did the post wipe. Its cool...I guess...
Anyway. Victory still means that you can specify, that you were better than the other.
And on another note, if your opponent surrenders, that does not mean that you win. Well, for record-keeping sake, it does, but in rreality, it means they weren't well enough prepared for the battle, they set up new skills because of the battle, and that they had learned enough for one fight. So my one hope is, that people will not surrender for any reason other than those... |
Shuyin
Posts: 15/1858 |
Well I didn't really mean it in all of that context. Fire still melts ice, but it doesn't mean because you used icem that you're weak against fire.
However, a sheild of ice should still be weak against fire, unless otherwise specified. |
Xeios
Posts: 83/2954 |
That's a good point Ginji. The most obvious weakness is usually never the actual weakness. For the longest time, whenever I used any type of magic, people would try to fight me with the opposite type.
For Example:
Xeios forms a spear made entirely of ice, and hurls it at his opponent with great speed.
and the counter-attack:
John Fighter moves ut of the way of the spear, giving him a slight cut upon his arm. He charges up and unleashes a fire blast at Xeios. The fire will probably hurt Xeios more because of his ice type...
When Actually it is just the opposite. It wouldn't do anthing to Xeios because he would probably block it with a shield of ice. The fire wouldn't melt the shield, because the ice is made of magic, and created to be two-hundred degrees colder than regular ice. Or something along those lines.
I personally, like to foil people's expansive plans by using a simple move. In a fight I am in, Jaques, Vulkar's character, is slashing at my character several times. But Xeios is using an attack, with a magical weapon(in this case a card, carrying a powerful neurotoxin, which attacks the electrical signals sent by the brain if touched by it.) to fol his plan. He can choose to continue his attack, or call it off. A key point here is that if he doesn't call off his attack, then he will be hit by my attack no matter what. I will be hit by his, but he will be hit by mine as well.
An example of a simple move, foiling, a perfectly good attack. |
Shuyin
Posts: 14/1858 |
I wasn't targeting you whatsover. The whole conversation in general as been "Go for you opponent's weaknesses." I'm saying that most simbattlers don't have physical weaknesses. Most weaknesses are in how they word things, not how their character fights.
|
Astrophel
Posts: 68/2724 |
Ginji, my example was using common sense about typical weaknesses; my point wasn't that all Fire elementals are weak to water. My point was that you should know and exploit your opponents' weaknesses, whatever they happen to be.
But, thanks for pointing out that the obvious weakness isn't always the right one - I knew that, but I forgot to clarify that. |
Shuyin
Posts: 13/1858 |
Simbattling is all in how you word your attacks. Simple grammatical errors or misconstrude thoughts can (and usually does) decide the outcome of a match. All this mumbo jumbo about attaining true victory and such doesn't apply much to real life or even simbattling for that matter. All this "Getting Courage" stuff doesn't really apply to simbattles.
And the whole weaknesses debate. Simbattlers are free to choose their strengths and weaknesses. A person's physical weakness is up to them. If they're a fire type and get hit by a water attack, it's truely up to them whether it inflicts more damage.
Having some sort of strategy is usually helpful. But once it falls through, you need to know how to adapt.
Theoretically, all moves should have a way to get out of them, or they're considered a god mod. |
Xeoman
Posts: 1801/11757 |
I can't really say what my strategy is ... honestly.
Maybe the past people I've fought, can vouce for my "strategy", especially Sparda since he's easily a very "detailed" fighter.
But basically, I think and comprehend my opponents attack, and look for -any- kind of thing they may have left out, or forgot about, to basically completely take advantage of them.
And I'm a progressive fighter. I start off really easy, and then after maybe a page or 2 of posts, I'll start hitting hard.
But sometimes I look too hard into my opponents post, and completely miss something. In the past with fights with Kaijin and Sparda, I've come up with brilliant tactics and attacks that would have probably like crippled them, but then they PM me "Hey, did you forgot about this?" ... *Xeogred re-edits entire post.
So really I think detail and comprehension are some key points here.
But "Knowing" your opponent doesn't really go for me I guess, since I've only SIM'ed in the past with one character (MasterSephiroth, who I basically later "evolved" into Xeogred). So, it's not like I really have a character who's good with Magic, and one who's good with fighting. So I guess that's kind of a weakness for me.
So that's basically my opinion, I don't think I've SIM'ed here once since the boards been called "Xeogaming" but, just from my past experience, that's what I have to say. |
BBQMissile
Posts: 999/1198 |
Originally posted by Xeios
But I still think simplicity is key. Say a sim-battler, sends a whole arsenal of attacks to hit me and trap me. And the first attack surrounds me everywhere except for the top and bottom, where he sends pillars of fire to hit me. And I, simply move out of where whatever it was that was going to surround me, before it surrounds me. Then his whole attack is foiled, by a simple movement. It is realistic, and follows all rules.
That depends entirely on how well the attack is described.
As for that little inside joke about Sparda destroying planets, well, it stays entirely true to his background which brings me up to another point I wish to address. Often times, you see people going entirely out of character in order to win. This means that they do something their character would normally not do. If you stay true to your character and the history and personality you have created for him, then victory really isn't that far away (considering that you created a strong history, background, personality, and fighter for your character). |
Elara
Posts: 2190/9736 |
To be honest I improvise for the most part and I try to go for the weaknesses if I can find them.
Random thought: Didn't we do away with the belt system? |
True Flight
Posts: 523/5245 |
For me strategy is the key... Yet it never really helped. XD But it will! I just have to think even more strategic. I base most of my characters on speed and defense. Total offense is not really my style, but I know you can't continue to defend yourself, so you can use speed for offense too.  But ofcourse you can't keep running for ever. Basically the key to victory is the mindset you'll win and you have to know what you're doing. Which I only have one a HALF of those two things. The rest is Strategy. |
Xeios
Posts: 589/2954 |
Beowulf, I don't even want to try to correct you. It is very hard to read anything you are typing, because of the lack of Grammar. But anyway...
Kaijin, the only reason Sparda explained his moves to me outside of the fight, was because he was telling me how whatever I did couldn't have worked. Hence our conversation on energy and time. I was wrong, and I fixed it. Sparda knows that, and you know that, now everyone on the board knows that. I do the same to anyone I battle, unless I don't have their S/N Then I tell them in the battle. For me, I just couldn't remember something I read a few days before, and usually I can memorize stuff like that.
Victory is important to some people. And I use this site for ideas for my story. I don't take them from other people, but this site has helped me to advance Xeios to the point where he now stands. I made his ktana up for this site, and carried it into my story. I gave him telekinisis for this site, and carried it into my story. And in my story Xeios is much less powerful than on this site. I know some people who do that the other way around. But in my Story Xeios is just a master of the sword, and a master of telekinisis. He doesn't generate magical barriers, or destroy planets because of his actions...(That is an inside joke to Sparda) He is still better than most of the other people in the story, but he is not like on this site. If the Xeios from this website was in my story, He would have already solved every problem he could have possibly encountered.
Wow, that had nothing to do with anything.
But I still think simplicity is key. Say a sim-battler, sends a whole arsenal of attacks to hit me and trap me. And the first attack surrounds me everywhere except for the top and bottom, where he sends pillars of fire to hit me. And I, simply move out of where whatever it was that was going to surround me, before it surrounds me. Then his whole attack is foiled, by a simple movement. It is realistic, and follows all rules. |
Rauni
Posts: 414/1351 |
So what about counterdicting myself? I tend to have two sides anyway, Kaijin.
It is as what Sparda said, words can alway be manipulated. It is nearly impossible for one person to understand another so it is the best if everyone just have fun and learn stuff. Beside, victory isn't the main important thing to learn. Respecting your opponent and having fun is the only victory I see.
Beside, there are several way to win even through you lost. It isn't victory if both of you respect together.
And Kaijin, nothing is ever expoisting weakness... You are actually expoisting your own weakness and I could either decide to attack you or not.
While on the topic of weakness... Not all weakness are that bad, it give the chance to EVEN COUNTERATTACK if you opponent try to attack your weakness. Like let say... While I am weak in mid-air, someone attack me. I still counterattack back since while in mid-air, I can still cast magic and stuff.
It is more like turning your weakness into strength as well. |
BBQMissile
Posts: 948/1198 |
Wake up Benja. I gave you the heavyweight belt.
Anyway, you guys seem to be forgetting one important thing. All this stuff about Brute force and exploiting their weakness and stuff...well its all good. But actually, I fight in a rather more primitive sense. In battle, I simply aim to survive and improvise. In fact, that's practically what I always do.
Many of you talk as if simbattling was a real thing. Its not. It is an RP battle with words. However, words can be manipulated...twisted and changed so that it is used to your own advantage. That's why I always improvise. Your plan will NEVER go the way you want it to because you never know what your opponent is thinking. THerefore, you have to be smart and improvise correctly, not only to survive but to also strike back. |
Benja
Posts: 125/551 |
Ah the sound of victory is what heavyweight champion is all about.
Victory in my matches and battles that I had are really about submission. Both of the fighters fight until theres no more left in them to do anything. One good move could be the key to a persons downfall. Everyone has a weakness, you just have to find out what the is and capitalize on it. Once its been pin pointed and worked on for a while, the opponent will fall given time.
Benja shines his belt.
Cyro Xero
Posts: 177/1779 |
Originally posted by Kaijin
The ONLY way you can defeat Sparda or I is to exploit our Weaknesses, anything else is going to leave you way too weak, and you'll quickly die..
I guess that would be it.
Let's get one thing straight: In a real battle what would YOU want to do to defeat the other person. Pretend you got into a fist fight at school. You were going up against someone who could pound you, BUT, you know he has a soft soft spot somewhere. Wouldn't you want to find that weakness so you can win with out getting beaten down? Fighting, and sim battling too, isn't about just one thing. It's about a few. Finding a weakness is just one. Another is strategy- using clever tricks to outsmart your opponent to strike. Brute forrce is also a method, but one that's recommend only when you can do it with out getting too hurt yourself. If you're able to do it an entire fight then so be it.
I say these because I claim to sim battle on a different plane than most everyone else, and that is fighting like it's a real life battle, one where details and all that wouldn't matter. But that's how I fight, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with detailing. However, details aren't everything too. Sometimes putting in smart planning and executing greatly helps to overwhelm the other player and force him to quit. Always forcing yourself to make lengthy posts helps to come up with those aspects, and maybe even some new ones.
Each way you fight can have a big impact on your victory, but most of the time not by itself, unless you're playing against someone new. Know your enemy, plan your fighting and try to use anything he/she has to your advantage. Of course we all know that with certain people who sim battle, being cheap isn't something they're above, and that can pretty much srew up the mood of the battle. I personally dislike people who cheat in the slightest just to win badly or avoid losing, and I don't want to bother with them. |
Kaijin Surohm
Posts: 1027/1852 |
Originally posted by Beowulf Cor Leonis
Here is what I mean, let say Kaijin just aggressively attack me. If I overpanic, he would deal a good damage to me. If I remain calm, I can easily dodge his attack and if I am correct (depending on his tone) , he would not know what happened next if I have or have not counterattack back. You got to make your opponent think what YOU would do, and do slightly opposite of what he try to take control of.
Kaijin, your threat is good as it is empty. 
I'm sorry to say Beowulf, but that's called Exploiting Weaknesses  Like I said, your counterdicting yourself.
Someone do tell me, where in the hell in my last post did I threaten anyone? |
Rauni
Posts: 410/1351 |
A ghost? Dude, you know he is weak against fire or any magical-energy based spell. Beside, not the whole lot of sim-battler isn't a ghost.
And you have forgotten... Brute force isn't really the answer here. It is fighting face-to-face, unless you got the courage to fight afar, I doubt you win this way.
Also in order to fight and win effectively, you also must calm yourself and predict your opponent. You have to think what he think... Now most of you would be like: WTF are you talking about?
Here is what I mean, let say Kaijin just aggressively attack me. If I overpanic, he would deal a good damage to me. If I remain calm, I can easily dodge his attack and if I am correct (depending on his tone) , he would not know what happened next if I have or have not counterattack back. You got to make your opponent think what YOU would do, and do slightly opposite of what he try to take control of.
Now most opponent are just bluffing and say they are the best. Ignore them. You can make the best of what you can do, even if showing those opponent a lesson or two. After all, winning is not about defeating your opponent to death. It is also part of the learning your mistake as well. Both, you and your opponent, can even make a SLIGHT mistake.
Kaijin, your threat is good as it is empty. |
Kaijin Surohm
Posts: 1014/1852 |
Beowulf? What the fuck? Lol.
Fighting Brute Force against anything is completly stupid, and illogical. If your enemy is a Ghost, are you going to attack him with your sword? No. You have to exploit his weaknesses to hurt him.
You've completly counterdicted yourself in that whole freaking post.
If you were to go up against Sparda or I, Brute Force is the LAST thing you want to do. The ONLY way you can defeat Sparda or I is to exploit our Weaknesses, anything else is going to leave you way too weak, and you'll quickly die. (Good luck even FINDING our weaknesses.)
Now then, back to what I was saying, just about every person in here has prooven my point, yoru Mentality, and your Detail is what truely wins the fight. |
Rauni
Posts: 408/1351 |
Actually, some victory are not consider a good victory unless you fight fairly. What the hell am I saying?
Simple. If you fight like a man, not caring for weakness but only to fight at their strongest point, you are actually a man. Fighting their weakness with your strength, you are really a coward... You either get a sweet victory or a victory that make your fame goes bad.
However, there are certain condiction on how to win a battle. Simple desprition or complex doesn't really matter... It is the tone and the feeling toward to your opponent. You can't just win by brute force and logic desprition.
Most people doesn't care about winning or losing. Take Leon for a example. He lose most time but does that actually prove that most of his attack failed? Not really, he play it easily and take it either easy or seriously.
And not all of the time you win just by defeating your opponent. If your opponent left you alone because s/he know that you are pushing it too hard and s/he have the feeling that you are determined to win, your opponent can sometime actually say "You know what, kid? I see your potential and your real strength. I like your attitude... However, you are still inexperience and we should fight another day."
Would that count as a victory? Probably, since the kid's mission was to show and last as long until his/her opponent decide to give up, knowing that he or she can beat the kid anytime up. |
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