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The Accidental Protege
Posts: 1621/2641 |
I don't believe in hell. You are correct, Thex, good sir. I believe the idea to be trite and insipid; scaring people into believing in an entity should not be the way to attain moral perfection and appeasment to said entity. That's not right. That ain't got no sense. If there is an all powerful god, then why did he give us free will? And for that matter, why would there be a hell if he gives us the freedom to believe in him or not? Does he just like tossing the unfortunates down there to laugh while they burn in agonizing pain for all eternity?  |
Astrophel
Posts: 1161/2724 |
Originally posted by Logos
First of all, intentional or not, the title of the thread says: "So, why do Non-believers got to Hell?," which assumes there is a hell. *snip*.
Clockworkz/The Shredder isn't Christian last I checked. I also don't think he believes in their concept of hell (but I might be wrong). But let's be honest, that's the simplest wording and the one most likely to attract attention. |
Logos
Posts: 13/641 |
First of all, intentional or not, the title of the thread says: "So, why do Non-believers got to Hell?," which assumes there is a hell. The Bible was written by people, and therefore carry human bias, such as support for prejudice against women, slavery, et al. Regardless if there is a deity, it doesn't mean that the Bible was written through a deity. The Bible isn't a history book, and shouldn't be used as one. It's rather odd that some people will pick out a line that say: "this supports killing/abusing/enslaving/denying rights to [insert disliked group]," when the general gist of the Bible says to be kind and compassionate to all people. Go figure. But to the heaven/hell issue, someone who isn't a Christian but is a "good" person, they already follow the general teachings of the Bible, and therefore in the case that there is a God that the Bible preaches, said person would not go to hell. |
Spartan
Posts: 1092/1569 |
Originally posted by Vulcanlogic
I can go around speaking against Atheism, Wiccans, Babtists, ect if you really want.
But to stay on topic. Spartan, you'll find that that is for the majority incorrect. You'll find that while religion helps a lot of people, that is never the reason for religion. Usually that is the result, but the reason is always closer to not being able to believe in atheism or any other religion.
I am sure religion does help people as religion is a way for people to cope with their inability to handle reality...
Sure whatever if they get their confidence boost or whatever fine...
But they whole I dont believe so I am going to go to a hell that I dont believe in...
That just is annoying.. |
Lord Vulkas Mormonus
Posts: 1199/4541 |
According to the King James Version, which I believe is considered the most accurate, Sodom and Gammorah were destroyed for being "wicked". I'm trying to find the exact verses where it says, but the bible that's put on lds.org isn't working.
I would speak on the main topic at hand, but that has been exhausted to an extreme. Instead I'll mention that one place where this mistaken idea could have come from is the book of Mary Magdaline. This book was not put into the bible, and for good reason. It said many things, going so far as to say that there is no sin. Greatly mistranslated through many times, altered, all that. A version wasn't even recovered intil many hundred years after it was written. |
Squiggy
Posts: 3/15 |
Originally posted by The Omega
I thought Sodom and Gomorrah were turned to salt because they were gay? sodom(y)
that is debatable in itself. The translations come out differently depending on which bible you look at. Some say that they wanted to "know" the angels and some say they wanted to "rape" them. To be honest know is often an allusion to rape or sex but I have read documents saying the original word (I think in Hebrew for this part of the text) was like a lot of less sexual words in root and was kinda confusing. Some translations state that all the people not just all the men came to Abraham's house and that doesnt seem much like gang rape behavior. *shrug* sorry I digress from the point. *sigh* I shouldnt some to this section. 
Anyway the point I was trying to make was that Sodom and Gomorra may have been destroyed for many other reasons than homosexuality even according to the bible. Rape, horrible treatment of guests to the town (even if they werent intending to rape they were not being civil according to the society to Lot or the angels), devil possesion, etc.
As for people going to hell just for not believing....*shrug* From an athiest's point of view it helps to create a sense of superiority in the followers that leads to wars, conquering, and generally less favorable treatment to the unbelievers which leads to that religion having more likelyhood of remaining for a long time or spreading which make them popular religions whicht then leads to more attitude and the cycle continues.
I have yet to get a strait answer out of a Christian other than, "I dont know." *shrug*
*edit I read what this website said for the most part (I cant read it all I start to think too hard): http://www.judeochristianity.com/hell.htm
Thx venomouslobster for posting it. |
venomouslobster
Posts: 228/444 |
this website kind of wraps up the whole issue in a nice neat little bag
http://www.judeochristianity.com/hell.htm
it is very informative, enjoy |
Lord Vulkas Mormonus
Posts: 1173/4541 |
I was attempting to refer to the ignorant ones Sparda, and just so you know, we mormons believe exaltation and erternal life come from acts. |
BBQMissile
Posts: 996/1198 |
Originally posted by Vulcanlogic
Everyone else! Since I haven't seen the point of view of many normal christians, I'll just explain their idea. Basically they believe that we are given salvation as a gift, and that only believers can recieve that gift. They believe that Christ will only give it to those that don't deny him, to those that believe in him.
No.
If by normal Christians, you mean ignorant Christians, then yes....ignorant christians believe that only believers can receive salvation. However, not every Christian is an ignorant one. I don't know what Mormons believe, but you can't possibly categorize all of Christian beliefs under that one statement. I've said before (definitely more than once in this thread) and i'll say it again...Christians do not believe non-believers go to Hell nor do they believe that only believers can receive the gift of salvation
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venomouslobster
Posts: 224/444 |
Frisbeetarianism: the belief that, when you die your soul flies up to the roof of your house, and gets stuck
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Lord Vulkas Mormonus
Posts: 1165/4541 |
Originally posted by SpardaAnd maybe it's just me, but this thread is no longer really useful or relevant. What started off as a rather ignorant question (in my opinion) became nothing more than another thread about questioning God, evolution, theories, and the works. [/quote
I can go around speaking against Atheism, Wiccans, Babtists, ect if you really want.
But to stay on topic. Spartan, you'll find that that is for the majority incorrect. You'll find that while religion helps a lot of people, that is never the reason for religion. Usually that is the result, but the reason is always closer to not being able to believe in atheism or any other religion.
As for what you said directly to me, I would say that's unnecesary, but you're already banned, so it would be pointless. Come to think of it, you aren't even able to read this post for that matter, so why am I speaking directly to you? Meh, I'm probably just insane. I'll talk to everyone else now.
Everyone else! Since I haven't seen the point of view of many normal christians, I'll just explain their idea. Basically they believe that we are given salvation as a gift, and that only believers can recieve that gift. They believe that Christ will only give it to those that don't deny him, to those that believe in him.
There, I wasted an entire post saying a lot but really accomplishing nothing.
X Marks the Spot
Posts: 515/693 |
That's the purpose of a debate. To question things, and then discuss them in a civilized manner.
Me, I'm an Atheist, but I don't mind religion. I just think that it has a tendency to spawn prejudice and hatred. Aside from that, it can be a good thing sometimes.
And, as I've already said, I simply believe that people go wherever they believe they are going to go when the die. So in a sense, I believe that people go to heaven or hell when they die, but only if they believe they will.
Therefore, non-believers would not, because as their name would suggest. They don't believe. |
BBQMissile
Posts: 994/1198 |
Originally posted by Spartan
Religion is for people who cant deal with real life, trying to fill some thing they lack as they need to believe someone out there is watching them every moment...
and your post reminded me of Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy....Babelfish...
Just because your religion was forced upon you doesn't mean you have the right to automatically characterize and label all religion for everyone else.
And maybe it's just me, but this thread is no longer really useful or relevant. What started off as a rather ignorant question (in my opinion) became nothing more than another thread about questioning God, evolution, theories, and the works. |
Spartan
Posts: 1041/1569 |
Originally posted by Star FX
Just because you dont believe in something, doesnt mean it doesnt exist...
K FX is that all you can say about this besides argueing with sparda about your italics tag GTFO the thread...
and as Zabusa said and I agree along with Shredder... I dont Believe in Heaven Hell or purgatory or whatever else BS there is out there....Religion is for people who cant deal with real life, trying to fill some thing they lack as they need to believe someone out there is watching them every moment...
and your post reminded me of Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy....Babelfish...
*sigh* and people you will need to get used to offense...
Originally posted by Vulcanlogic
It is impossible to prove that God exists, as is it impossible to prove the evolution is true. There is no concrete evidence either way, there is mild evidence every way, and there are many arguements.
As a matter of fact, my religion says that were there proof of God, then there would be no point. We were sent to earth to be judged on our actions, and if we knew, and I mean actually knew that God existed, we would be close to perfect. There would be no test.
Yet everytime someone goes to prove evolution doesnt exist it makes the theory stronger,but remember its a Theory...while Religion is a "belief" soo....Hmmm....Yet evolution has more solid proof... and Religion has some books that could have been written by drunkards years ago who needed some cash or food, so they made up someguy or they had some guy crucified...
and your post remined me of the Hitchhikers Guide..
Babel fish.. |
Elara
Posts: 3326/9736 |
Most religions have some version of heaven, except (to my knowledge) for Jehovah's Witnesses and Atheists. Even if "heaven" is the end of the reincarnation cycle, it is an end. Not all have hell though. For example, most Wiccans do not believe in hell, mainly because most of us believe in reincarnation... and in many ways you can say earth is hell, so that is as close as we get. |
Banned
Posts: 2245/-3459 |
My logic is only flawed if we're playing using your beliefs...
And he DOES exist in the minds of those who damn others... ... Whuppah! My logic works...
Basically... even though god loves us... if we don't believe, we don't get in, simply because he has to keep his promise that he apparently made to us...
Anyways... back to bashing religion and stuff....
Yes, organized religion is faulty! Rip the system! BeRzErKeR!!!! |
X Marks the Spot
Posts: 478/693 |
Eh, I simply believe that people go wherever they believe they are going to go when the die.
Short and simple.
And Shaddow, your logic is flawed. The party who is taking something away would have to exist for that to work and God doesn't exist in the minds of so-called "non-believers" |
Banned
Posts: 2244/-3459 |
I didn't really feel like reading the rest of the thread, so I don't know if this has been posted yet...
but did it ever occur to you guys that perhaps people who love people can still punish them for their wrongdoings?
"I love you, but I'm gonna have to take away your credit card, Britteny."
"I love you, but you didn't believe so, no heaven for you." |
venomouslobster
Posts: 195/444 |
i dont remember what website i found it on most recently, but i recall having seen like half a dozen references to it here and there in stories and books on faeries and ireland and such in the past
but keep in mind it is a distinctly colloquial belief, you wont find christians in turkey saying this, it is mostly relagated to really old people in ireland |
Elara
Posts: 3312/9736 |
Vulcan, this is the debate forum... people will get offended. If actual bashing of a religion occurs then you close the thread, but that has not happened here. Also, by extending that offer to only one group of people you isolate the rest and that makes staff look bad. You must be neutral and see all sides of arguments if you hope to succeed as a moderator in this forum.
Now, onto my main reason for posting in here. Venomouslobster, where did you find out the faerie thing? That is cool! |
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