 New link in the top of page "IRC Chat". |
| Register | Login | |||||
 |
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Calendar
| Last Posts
| IRC Chat
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | XPW | Stats | Color Chart | Photo album |
|
| | ||
New link in the top of page "IRC Chat". |
| Register | Login | |||||
|
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Calendar
| Last Posts
| IRC Chat
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | XPW | Stats | Color Chart | Photo album |
|
| | ||
| 0 users currently in Debate Shrine. |
| User | Post |
| Elara Posts: 3581/9736 |
Don't know about the videogame one, but the Twinkie one was a murder case in San Francisco. The man claimed that he temporarily lost sanity due to consuming to many Twinkies... and it worked. |
| Logos Posts: 50/641 |
I still doubt the application of a good deal of these, anyone mind bringing up a precident for them, a court case ruling in the favor of the more absurd supposed "not me!" cases? Your link only provides a few "disorders" that they note cases. And Rogue, I believe the term you are looking for is Generation Me, a concept brought up by Dr. Jean M. Twinge (http://www.generationme.org/), but it describes the current generation. I didn't find a Responsible Generation, though.
@Nelrith "Pornography Syndrome, often entered as a mitigating factor to hold men less responsible, but practice was shut down in Schiro v. Clark in 1992. Presumably acting under influence of pornography at the time." And the video gaming loophole, where's the case? |
| Cteno Posts: 78/3416 |
I really believe that if people blame violent video games on shooting, they should be shot themselves. It has nothing to do with the crime! It wasn't the video game's choice that whoever got shot got shot, it was the person. They had all the choice in the matter!
I think that the courts should keep this as a golden rule: Its not the gun that kills somebody, its the person using it. Video games in this case would be the gun. How is it the gun company's fault? They didn't plan the murder. They didn't shoot the person. The gun's intention was to protect the house from thieves, not shoot the guy's wife and yet gun companies are still being sued. And finally.... Pornography? Millions look at it every day and it doesn't spark anyone else to commit an act of violence, but somehow this guy can use it as an alibi? If people keep hiding behind crap like this, then our country is doomed. |
| Elara Posts: 3570/9736 |
It's sad, but it will most likely get worse. As far as the ADD thing is concerned, it makes me sad to be honest. You have a kid honestly has that disorder, has gone through intensive testing years ago proving he indeed has it... and because of all the doctors that now just perscribe ritalin and other such drugs because the parents just want their kids to be silent and not, well, kids, the poor child that actually has ADD is treated as a poser and told that his problem is fake.
It's mainly that people are not held to responsibility, but in the ADD case it is also refusal to take responsibility... both in the case of the parents who don't want to deal with their children and the doctors who only care about money instead of giving the actual diagnosis. Under the influence of pornography? Give me a fucking break. |
| Rogue Posts: 2199/11918 |
People inherently are greedy and out to cover their own asses, this is true. But look at our forefathers who declared their rebellion by signing their names large enough for the tyrant to not need to use his reading glasses.
People just lack integrity nowadays, I suppose. As I look over that post, I realize I didn't mean that people are not out to take responsibility, but that they are not held to it. Our justice system now excuses people for "The devil made me do it" and "It's not my fault, I have a disorder" declarations. Is everything so out of people's hands? No one has choices any more. You didn't choose to kill that woman, your addiction to violent video games did, thus it's Sony's fault a woman's dead. Riiiiight. |
| Logos Posts: 46/641 |
Also, a big flaw in the resolution: since when was there a generation that "took responsibility"? |
| Lord Vulkas Mormonus Posts: 1292/4541 |
Too be honest, each and every one of those arguments is an Ad Fontem fallacy in arguement. That is to say, it ignore whether or not it is a crime, whether or not it is wrong, and to concentrate on who the person is.
Jail was not originaly designed to be a punishment, though it certainly serves as one, it was designed to keep unsafe people out of society, and stop them from causing more pain. Thus, if a mentally retarded person kills someone, he is unsafe. He goes and is either restricted to an asylum, or is sent to jail. We can't have killers running around loose, regardless of their reason. Then we mention, under the influence of pornography? I won't get into that too much, but people to get addicted to such a thing. A while back on CNN, a fireman pulled a gun on his wife because she tried to stop him from viewing pornography while his children were in the same room, possibly watching him. The fireman is bad, yes, but the pornography had an effect. Both I think are guilty, though any guy who would pull a gun on his wife deserves jail. Another way that people never take responsibility is in fattening food. People have gone so far as to sue Mcdonalds for making them fat. This was disallowed by the Hamburger bill, but it still happened. |
| Rogue Posts: 2192/11918 |
The general direction of the thread was to discuss how this world doesn't simply take responsibilty for its actions--namely when a problem occurs it's suddenly no one's fault. Everyone's shouting, "Not me!" when someone questions who's to blame for a social problem, crime, etc.
The flawed system is a product of this, of people's justifying their behavior on flawed issues. Example: The courts excuse a man for shooting his wife because he was mistreated as a child. The ADD thing was simply a side-note on this problem. As in people are suddenly not just normal, healthy people any more, but are diagnosed with so-called syndromes and disorders when there's nothing wrong with them. ADD, in general, is a fad. Suddenly EVERYONE'S got it and has to take Ritalin. For fuck's sake, people have short attention spans naturally. We live in a world where there are images coming at us a mile a minute and we can change them with a click. The mere fact that people are told they have something allows them to excuse their actions. Seriously though, does anyone ever really blame a mentally retarded person for what they do? Sure if they were to kill someone it would be in question, but like in WhiteRose's case when one smashed a bottle on her car, could anyone really say anything and hold him to what he did? |
| Logos Posts: 36/641 |
The belief system is inherently flawed, because wealth comes through circumstance; hard work is not necessarily needed. If you work hard, you might just get a nice 40 hour job and a retirement fund. ADD is nonsense. The United States shines brightly on people with money. One thing I wish is that you would concentrate on one point for a debate, Rogue, or at least one direction. Free will v. Fate, a flawed judicial system and ADD; would it be too much to ask that you choose one, seeing as they are rather broad topics? |
| Xeoman Posts: 4854/11757 |
Originally posted by Rogue I don't have much to say, other than the fact that I'd like to comment on this statement a bit. I've moved 10 times in my life, sure half the time we stayed within this city of Olathe, but hell I've been through probably around a dozen or so schools. So, I've met a ton of people, and have made a lot of friends in time. And guess what? Probably 80% of the friends I've made, 'supposedly' have ADD and some even ADHD. I think its sad. I just think it can be an emotional thing, stress, or whatever. A few days ago I laughed at the idea that maybe people would diagnose me with ADD, because I could have slight insomia, thus I guess I get a hyperactive mind towards the end of my day at night and can't stop thinking about stuff to relax. How do I see it? Stress, emotions, nothing more. I also hate clinic's. They are absolutely worthless most of the time, and just seem to want nothing more out of you than money, and your 'business'. After my recent car accident, I had pains in my back and neck so we finally went to see a local clinic to see what they'd think I could do to make it better and possibly get permission to see a cyropractic (yeah right). What did they do? Well first off, the doctor I was with had a trainee with him, so half the time it seemed like he devoted himself to teach the trainee stuff and not focus on ME. Then, he just checked some of my vitals signs to finally say "Well hey, you're still alive!". Then he just goes on to say "Okay, you'll be like this for about a month. Just take Advil when needed". No. I just want to go to a cyropractic, so they can chop up my back regardless if that'll make it even more painful for awhile ... and eventually make the process quicker, and better without the bullshit. Sadly however I have yet to do this, but I probably should. Although I can function entirely fine, when at work and when being physically active, I don't seem to be as fast as I used to be. And it wouldn't hurt to probably get X-Ray's and stuff to see if anything is out of alignment (I've heard bad stories about whiplash that affected people for the rest of their lives). Simply put I'm not too big on medication. Just give me realistc factors. Egh, hopefully some of that made sense. That's all I can think of to say now. |
| FX Posts: 937/3775 |
That's right, he got off for being angry.
That is sad that someone would claim that, it sets back all progress that is made against the claims that video games cause violence.
No comment needed.
ACTING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF PORNOGRAPHY?!?!? And I'm surprised how many were just different names for being abused as a child. |
| Rogue Posts: 2190/11918 |
It's the good old argument of free will versus determinism. Free will meaning that humans have choices and pick their own paths while with determinism it's the idea that a higher being creates a destiny for everyone or that no one really has a choice and everything is out of their hands.
In the '80s, the Me! Generation, a new breed of rich person was born--the billionaire. Anything and everything became possible. It was the time to spend, spend, spend. If you've got it, flaunt it. You can have it all! It became a time of self-creation and stealing one's destiny from the hands of fate. What the hell has happened since then? People go on trial and get off on technicalities. Suddenly nothing is a person's fault. Have you heard of this Gone with the Wind syndrome? Rapists actually get off on this. If we all believe that we control our own actions why is a person not being charged with murder because he claims he ate so many Twinkies it made him crazy? Various defenses for crime: http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/405/405lect02.htm What do you think about these defenses? It somewhat makes me angry how our culture has also embraced heavily medicating people for typical behavior. ADD. I've watched so many children go on meds because they were being kids. What are your thoughts? |
