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| Logos Posts: 556/641 |
Personally, if it wasn't for homework, I daresay I might be in a decent college right now. But I don't care. I'm not bitter. There are more important things in life than getting admission into some bigwig college. However, this is not the point at hand, so I will not digress further.
For primary school, I went to a private Catholic school for both elementary and middle school. In elementary school, I used to do math at home through some John Hopkins program, and that was fun, I remember, although money problems ended that around middle school. I had homework, but it wasn't annoying or anything, although I got detention for finishing the math workbook. Middle school was bearable enough--again, private Catholic school--we had seven classes a day, and I remember that nevertheless, the only class that was really bad was Latin. The homework was brutal. Then I moved to California, and my first public schooling since 2nd grade. Now I'm going to go out on a limb to say this, but regardless of the number courses and other nonsense, the math classes leading up to Calculus were awfully taught. Not only that, with my English 10 class as an exception, high school was depressingly alienating experience for me. There was too much busywork in my lower level courses. I'm going to disagree with Chevy and say that the entire point of high school is not about coursework at all, but about feeling good about one's self. Why else is two years worth of coursework--less, if one considers that most of it is paced at a high school level for most students--stretched over the four years that we call high school? High school is supposed to be about fun, about making friends. There used to be a time when people took college courses in college. Such an era has past. It is now the norm to take AP classes and summer college classes. High school is now about fitting as much crap as one can onto one's resume for college. Stuffing nonsense such as: extracurricular activities and sports and leadership and community service and a myriad of honors classes and let's not forget, the funding the growth of Collegeboard. Right now, one might be thinking, "Logos is a hypocrite," et cetera, et cetera, because I myself will be ending high school with 8 AP tests and 5 college classes. I'm not against people taking college classes or AP classes in high school, but in this day, it has become ridiculous. All of my upper level classes have a clear relation to my projected major, and most importantly, I'm had or am having fun with my current classes, which is a lot more than I'd give most of the people in my classes. But that's what matters to me. The classes I learnt the most in were taught well enough to not need a massive volume of homework. A lot of teachers lean too heavily on homework as a means of learning. So with a bit of qualification, I'm going to side with Vulkar on this one. Although I think that even in larger classes, actions can be effected towards personalizing education. Besides, a 20 student class is tiny. The minimum here is 30. [Edit] I forgot to mention that it's not necessarily hard to get a 4.x GPA even; these days, the "cook book" method is often the preferred one, and thought is a mere afterthought, and wholly unnecessary. And any idiot can get a high score on the SAT, it isn't a matter of talent. And Cairoi, isn't it clear why a writer needs honors physics? |
| Ryan Posts: 950/1748 |
Originally posted by Vulkar Unfortunately that would cause public schools' costs to shoot up due to the immense work force that is suddenly needed to teach... :\ Although your post did give me another point... If a student doesn't understand the homework, it requires them to go out of their way to find a teacher who can tell them what the homework requires from them. How many people do this? Not many... |
| Astrophel Posts: 1659/2724 |
Originally posted by Nephitaem School isn't about making people feel good about themselves, and that's something that seems to be lost on some systems. So no, I would not be willing to waste my time to make someone else feel better. Whatever happened to failing the lazy ones, genuinely helping rather than coddling the ones with a legitimate problem, and not wasting the time of the people who can handle their work? I wouldn't know, it's not been like that in the entire time I've been in school, so if anyone older can answer, please do. |
| Lord Vulkas Mormonus Posts: 1885/4541 |
And that, Belial, is the main problem with public schooling. They can't specialize with one student and make sure that he's provided for. Instead, they insist that the students spend hours listening to a teacher who barely even knows what he or she is teaching.
Then they try and makes the students learn through writing it down, which, unfortunately, if they can't learn through listening, has no affect. So, realistically, a single person can't teach a large room of twenty students. They can't meet every student's needs, or teach them properly. Of course, that's going way off topic, into a realm of completely unrelated to homework. So, is it good? I'd say that it has its place, at times. However, usually it is unneccesary. Students should be taught to teach themselves, or be taught in classrooms no larger than four people. |
| Belial Posts: 303/647 |
Not all kids catch on like that, Phantom. It's not just that they're not paying attention.Everyone learns differently, as well. You can't base everyone's ability off your own. |
| Ryan Posts: 949/1748 |
"few hours of your life"
Can't be bothered to do a normal quote... It's not a few hours of our life though, homework in total can add up to an extra whole school day each week... That's what our school gives us anyway. Homework still isn't a reliable way of getting students to do revision. I know for a fact there are many students at my school that don't do much of their homework, and the stuff they do is done in 5 minutes during tutor period, or even worse, during the lesson. Also, if people are too irresponsible with their education now, what's the point in helping them with their education if they're still going to be irresponsible later in life, for example if they get a job? You can't force the Guide to Being Responsible in to an irresponsible student's head by telling them to do homework, which they may not do anyway. "a lot of people arent smart enogh to know what to do or how" And if these people paid attention in class they wouldn't have such problems... The people some label as "not smart" are usually the people who simply cannot be bothered with the work. Unless they've been diagnosed with a learning disability, they shouldn't have too much trouble learning in school without being forced to revise. |
| Nephitaem Posts: 10/35 |
Originally posted by Danny Phantom well im glad your smart but there are still people who need revision. the fact is that some people are too irresponsable to be trusted with their education. a lot of people arent smart enogh to know what to do or how, so the teacher has to tell them. surely all of you would be willing to sacrafice a few hours of your life so that those who arent smart can fell better and get their work done. id feel bad if i was givven a lot of homework and no one else was. but if someone is too stupid to do their work because its optional, theyll not be successful, and wont be able to compete in life. also it shouldnt be limited in middle school because then theyll get used to not doing much work, and when high school comes around theyll have way too much an feel like dropping out. |
| Xeoman Posts: 5915/11757 |
It depends on the person.
But, times are changing. Myself and my sister are an ultimate example. For me, I was in a poorer part of our city when I was younger and my Elementary school was pretty small. We NEVER did or had any homework to do, ever. All the way up to 6th grade I never had to take anything home to do it, even projects or anything. Then we moved across town to a more "well provided" area (to put it in terms from where I came from), and the Junior High I went to was one of the biggest "Blue Collar" schools in the -nation-. I remember 7th grade being a pain, but seriously who can say their 7th grade year was easy? I don't think anyone can really honestly say that. Homework was all over the place, but eventually I got things together and did perfectly fine for those three years. I managed about a 3.5 GPA throughout High School, which I think is pretty good considering I was pretty laid back those three years. Its High School, so obviously homework was all over. My younger sister now in 8th grade (I think ...) seems steps beyond what I was doing at her age. She had homework in elementary school (though maybe it was the areas we've lived in causing this), which I thought was a little odd. And the stuff she's doing in Junior High right now just seems tougher than things I did. I don't know. I never had homework in elementary school and my grades have always been Honor Roll materal, usually. And I'm pretty set in getting a good education through college. But, people are different. My opinion: I think it should be limited, at least. Or something. We go to school ~8 hours Monday through Friday, 5 days out of the 7 day week and then they expect us to do daily homework which can go on for hours if its a project, paper, or something you just simply don't understand. By the time you're done its probably a good time to go to bed and get some rest. Juggling work doesn't make things easier. Then again, I don't know. I'm in college now and its drastically different since college is about YOU (I'd hope you wouldn't get grounded or anything over college grades?), and college is extremely more flexible. And once you get those basics out of the way you can start leaning some real stuff that'll be useful in life. On top of that when I was in High School I was generally working about 30 hours a week, which is quite a bit with school and I still managed good grades, and I really never felt overwhelmed by homework or anything. Though it was tedious and annoying at times, I just didn't want to do it. 
I've gone way too off topic, but yeah. In the end it always depends on the person, and overall I'd say homework should be somewhat limited throughout middle school at least. |
| Evo Posts: 815/871 |
I have mixed feelings on this one. back in elementary school, there wasn't a lot of homework. In fact, whatever homework I did have, I didn't do.
Bad starting point. In middle and high school, I did everything taht was assigned to me almost. So it wasn't as if I had a bad habit of not being responsible. It depends on the atmosphere in your home. If your parents make you. I fyou have the time to do it without distraction. What your mindset is. I don't think they should have banned homework in the elementary school, but my point is that those with the will to succeed... will succeed. |
| Ryan Posts: 947/1748 |
Considering I did next to no homework for Biology during year 10, and have still done very minimal homework for year 11, AND having missed some lessons I'm still getting As and A*s in practise Biology exams...
And still, I stick to my point that it is forced revision. It should be the student's choice if they do such revision or not. It's the child's education and they should therefore choose the way they want to revise. |
| Nephitaem Posts: 9/35 |
Originally posted by Danny Phantom but, you have to realize, a lot of students need to write it, otherwise they won't remember it. a lot of people learn through writing better tahn reading. also biology has so much information that you need to review it, otherwise you could quite easily fail at it. and they cant give only certain people homework because then those certain people will feel bad about themselves, discouraging them, and stopping themselves from continuing to be better at it. |
| Elara Posts: 4250/9736 |
I would have been so screwed if I didn't have homework. Yes, I hate it, but you don't get the concepts unless you spend more time with them. And thirty minutes per subject isn't enough to really get it across to a room full of 30-60 kids, especially math. That was my main homework in grade school actually, that and spelling.
If they've come up with a way to get it all done in class, then maybe it will help; but we will just have to wait and see I suppose. |
| Ryan Posts: 946/1748 |
I know I was never prepared for High School because I got two pieces of homework over the ENTIRE year six, and none at all in year five.
I do hate the idea of homework because it is simply forced revision. I'm always forced to do work we've done multiple times in class in the form of homework, especially by my Biology teacher who gives us the task of making revision notes...  We've got revision books! And they've worked fine for me so far...
Then again, there are some forms of homework I do agree with, like getting students to finish off unfinished coursework, which is much more important to your school life than normal homework. So yeah, elementary school homework seems a waste... But it is okay for important essays that count towards your grade in high school. |
| Cairoi Posts: 1985/3807 |
You know what's funny?
I hate the entire school system. It's so flawed the way it is, at least in my opinion. I mean, I don't hate school, I just think that it's so flawed we should really redo it. Look, I believe that you should spend elementary school just doing different things. You'd learn how to balance a checkbook and not be financially challenged later in life, as well as get a feel for tons of different things. You'd have like shop class and writing classes and math and science and stuff, and it would be a lot less rigid then it is. Then, you'd find a subject you've shown talent in, and spend a majority of your education on that, while learning required background information for later in life. Personally, I want to write stories later in my life. I don't see why I have to take Honors Physics. There's so many bullshit requirements in school for things that claim to prepare you for later in life but that you don't really need. Honestly, if you're going to give a presentation in a business, do they want to see 15 source cards? Do they care where you got your information? Do you need the proper study habits? Listen, homework being a nessecary evil is a disturbing idea. Education should be something you want, and that's the only way you're going to get better grades. Instead of forcing kids to do all the same thing, let them learn what they want. *whew* I'm opinionated on this. |
| Belial Posts: 302/647 |
Another point a friend told me: How do you learn study habits, if you don't have to study?
You learn by repetition, if you have no homework, there is no repetition. |
| Nephitaem Posts: 6/35 |
im going to have to disagree with you, Vulcar. personaly i think that they should really have homework. in college theyll need it, in highschool theyll need it, and in real life they need to learn to do assignments and carry them out. if they dont learn the responsibility neccesarry for homework then they cant succeed at life.
if someone enters middle school and they have no idea about how to do homework then they could really be in a lot of trouble when they grow up. i could say the same thing about homeschooling. they cant learn the real classroom atmosphere and cant learn how to deal with people since they dont have any real social life. but i think that my rant about how i dont like homescoolers can wait for another time. |
| Lord Vulkas Mormonus Posts: 1869/4541 |
Being homeschooled, I naturally have a biased opinion on this.
Here where I live, most schools start at seven, and end at two thirty. That is, of course, at least six hours(not counting lunch) of constant school work. Then, they would have to go home, and have another two hours of school. But you know what's funny? I get all of my school(learning, doing the work, writing, and all that) done in a little more than two hours. Now, the elementary school if a lot easier, so why do they need eight hours to get everything done? Couldn't it just be done in around...say, three hours? I honeslty am not too against the idea of banning homework, but that's just me. |
| WhiteRose Posts: 1099/1461 |
The amount of homework elementary school children get now a days has increased a lot. To get rid of it completely is a really bad idea because, as much as they hate, it usually does help them learn the material better (especially if the parents are involved) and teaches them a sense of responsibility. However, a decrease in the amount of homework wouldn't be such a bad idea. Like Jobes mentioned, kids that age should be outside playing and being active, but if they are stuck inside all day doing homework, when they are done, usually they just go and play video games. So, a limited amount of homework would be a good idea. |
| Jobes Posts: 439/453 |
Personally I hated homework I think i done maybe 1/6th of my homework ever given to me in junior high or high school. But homework given to me in elementary school I did maybe.
I think it does teach kids responsibility but I am pretty sure the children don't need as much homework as they are getting now a days. I helped my little sister do her homework. She had so much homework to do it was sick. I think homework is alright for children in elementary school but not as much as they are getting now a days. |
| Bitmap Posts: 3948/7838 |
I remember having to write down words for spelling tests five times each in the 5th grade.
I think this is a no-no. 1- Students learn more from homework 2- it teaches them responsibility, a little thing we all have to know and learn that will reflect on the things we do. 3- it gives the teachers something to do...I mean, shit, I hate school, but it made my day if the teacher would read my handwriting on her shitty subjects. |
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