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| Xeogaming Forums - Debate Shrine - "Who killed more people in the Bible?" |
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Xeoman Ball and Chain Trooper Administrator          Since: 08-14-04 From: 255 Since last post: 90 days Last activity: 78 days |
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Saw this on digg:
I'm a pretty open minded Christian myself, but found that chart to be interesting I guess. It was one of the popular hits for the day at digg so just thought I'd post it here. |
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Lord Vulkas Mormonus Vile High Xeodent of Xeomerica.  Since: 10-29-04 From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way Since last post: 96 days Last activity: 96 days |
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| That is an interesting number, but then, that could easily be explained...see, everyone God killed in there was bad enough to pose a threat, and need to be killed. Those who were good clearly wouldn't killed by God, and of course, he wouldn't let Satan kill them.
By the way...Satan ctually killed some people? Who? |
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Cairoi This isn't about you and your loud mouth, This is about me and my fucking beard. Since: 08-29-04 From: PA Since last post: 4851 days Last activity: 4474 days |
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| See, I've been raised in a Christian home taught that all murder is wrong. So isn't God far more evil than Satan by these ethics?
Look, in my opinion I think the Old and New Testament need to be made into different things. People can be like "God is a caring and nice God" which he was in the New Testament, but then be like "Gays are wrong" which is the dick weed Old Testament God who killed people solely to test the faith of people. Don't confuse the ethics of the Gods, because while they have the same name, I don't believe them to be the same character. EDIT: Oh, and I think that when people say "Don't take the Lord's name in vain" is about the name God, I laugh my ass off. That law is in reference to God's actual name Yahweh (sp?). (Last edited by Cairoi on 04-05-07 03:46 PM) |
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Xeoman Ball and Chain Trooper Administrator Since: 08-14-04 From: 255 Since last post: 90 days Last activity: 78 days |
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Originally posted by Cairoi True. I'm sure like 90% of those numbers come from the flood. Also, sue me for being a terrible person who still hasn't read the Bible, but did God even kill anyone in the New Testament? |
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Rogue If you're reading this... You are the Resistance Since: 08-17-04 Since last post: 636 days Last activity: 444 days |
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| Wasn't it Satan who killed Job's family in a bet he made with God to prove that, although Job praised his God, enough hardship would make him curse God's name?
The joke out of Dogma that was said by Serendipity, the muse, about the Bible painting women as bigger villains than the Egyptians and Romans combined was something that was something I thought was intriguing, though. A woman ate of the apple and created the Original sin. A woman cut Samson's hair that made him strong. A woman asked for the head of John the Baptist. A woman inflicts tyranny over the Jews through her husband and sons and opens Pagan temples, killing the Hebrew god's prophets. A woman lures men to sexual acts away from their worship and to eat food meant for sacrifices. A couple women got drunk and tried to seduce their father to have children with them. Well I'm rambling. (Last edited by Rogue on 04-05-07 09:07 PM) |
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Lord Vulkas Mormonus Vile High Xeodent of Xeomerica. Since: 10-29-04 From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way Since last post: 96 days Last activity: 96 days |
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Originally posted by Xeogaming Yeah, through the apostles then plenty of people were killed. Anyway, there is a difference between us murdering, and God killing someone. See, as has been pointed out in the genocide debate by Cairoi, murder is something done in a passion, a sudden flash of anger making you angry enough to kill. God, however, would know what's best. He knows when someone should be removed from this world, and knows when it's right. We don't. Oh, and there is a difference between murder and killing. Killing can happen in war, self defense, ect. It isn't murder, it's killing. Also, I think that the main reason why there isn't nearly as much death in the New Testatment is because of who wrote it. The Old Testament is a broad history, encompassing thousands of years. The New testament covers, what, sixty? Seventy? For Him to kill as many people in that time as in the thousands of years in the Old Testament would be unneccesary. There were many people killed, and the average stays the same throughout the books. Again, God does not muder, He kills. Murder is wrong, killing is only sometimes wrong. |
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Bitmap #1 Enhancement Shaman US Ravenholdt  Since: 09-05-04 From: His Laughin' Place Since last post: 4559 days Last activity: 4553 days |
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| Well, being as a christian, I am open with many ideals and concerns reguarding the bible and even came up with a little conclusion on why God killed numerous people.
1- Only God knows when your time is up or not. Simple 2- During the Old testiment (which Edit- Ok, I know MOSTLY about the authors. I just dont know the key versus in each books nor the stories. Thats what I ment, yeah 3- He told people to do so for his/ her better benefit for the country. Im not sure what book, but there was a man who disobeyed God's word and felt so bad that he stripped himself naked and cut all of his hair off. So I believe it was because of people Disobeying God's word, and when people Disobey God, it showed during the old testiment, and alot of people were converted because of it. Thus Moses' story of talking to God through a burning bush, coming back down to see his freed people, and being struck down by God's word. Ill talk to my preacher about this Sunday morning when I go to church myself and give you guys a better feedback. (Last edited by Nagis on 04-05-07 11:21 PM) |
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BBQMissile ChaoticDeath  Since: 08-16-04 From: New York Since last post: 4940 days Last activity: 928 days |
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| THe Old Testament was not written by Moses. They were written by several people, though we are unsure of their names. We simply identify them into specific groups such as the Priestly Writers.
And also, "Thou Shalt Not Take the Lord's Name in Vain" does not only refer to "Yahweh" but all his names. The idea is respect to the Creator. God can have many names and one true name. If you take one of his other names in vain, you're still showing disrespect to him and its just as serious as taking his real name in vain. The Old Testament is simply a collection of stories that were written, not only to preserve the culture of the Jewish people for future generations, but also to explain certain subject matters that have been questioned for centuries. Therefore, some stories are true, some stories are partially true, some stories are simply creations of the imagination. Therefore, it is unwise to say "God killed this many people cause it says so in the Old Testament!". No. It's only in the Old Testament to prove a point. It may have happened but then again, it may not have happened (chances are, it didn't happen). Many things in the Old Testament are exaggerated just so that a point is proven. Therefore, i don't believe saying "God killed this many people but Satan killed none" is a good statement to make. And also, Caroi, i don't understand the point you're trying to make. The New and Old Testament are already two different things. (Last edited by BBQMissile on 04-05-07 09:17 PM) |
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Xeoman Ball and Chain Trooper Administrator Since: 08-14-04 From: 255 Since last post: 90 days Last activity: 78 days |
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| I've always found it to be intriguing and almost "weird" that people "wrote" the Bible. If that makes sense, I mean who wrote Genesis?
I guess God told the person about the events and whatnot, or something. (again probably just proving I've hardly read the Bible myself and I guess my points could be ignorant here  ) |
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Bitmap #1 Enhancement Shaman US Ravenholdt Since: 09-05-04 From: His Laughin' Place Since last post: 4559 days Last activity: 4553 days |
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Originally posted by BBQMissile Ok, I stand corrected. Genesis: Author - Moses Exodus: Author- Moses Leviticus: Author- Moses Numbers: Author- Moses Deuteronomy: Author- Moses Joshua: Author- Joshua Judges: Author- Possiably Samuel Ruth: Author- Anonymous Samuel: Author- Samuel 2nd Samuel: Author- Anonymous Kings: Author- Possiably Jeremiah 2nd Kings: Author- Possiably jeremiah Chronicles: Author- Possiably Ezra 2nd Chronicles: Author- Possiably Ezra Ezra: Author- Ezra Nehemiah: Author- Nehemiah Esther: Author- Unknown Job: Author- Unknown (Perhaps scholars within the 300 AD time period I think ) Psalms: Author- David and Others Proverbs: Author- Solomon and others Ecclesiastes: Author- Solomon Song of Solomon: Author- Solomon Isaiah: Author- Isaiah Jeremiah: Author- Jeremiah The Lamentations of Jeremiah: Author- Jeremiah Ezekiel: Author- Ezekiel Daniel: Author- Daniel Joel: Author- Joel Amos: Author- AMos Obadiah, Jonah, and Micah- Author- Themselves Zephaniah: Author- Zephaniah Haggal: Author- Haggal Zechariah: Author- Zechariah Malachi: Author- Malachi ____________________ What I ment to say was the person who contributated to the Old testiment was Moses. All of the above is my general knowledge on who wrote the bible in the Old testiment. I can even name the theme and timezone in which it was written if you would like. 
___________________ Edit- CONTRIBUTATING THE DEBATE Also, I know where that huge number came from. (The fact of God killing numerous people ) There was a town called "PsalimonGamora" (Spelling check there), which was a HUUUGGGGEEEE city. It was basicially like a "Sin City" of its time. Anyways, God spread word to some people that he would destroy the city with Fire and Brimstone. And he told others that were clean of sin to leave, and if they looked back, they would turn them into a piller of Salt. And whats really fucking my noodle is what VERSE its from...Christ, Ill find it guys. (Last edited by Nagis on 04-05-07 11:38 PM) |
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Siobhan. Red Paragoomba  Since: 02-15-07 From: Boston Since last post: 6265 days Last activity: 5305 days |
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ly satan! 
btw god killed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah is that what you're thniking of? (Last edited by cawn Q byne on 04-06-07 02:13 AM) |
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Logos Again? Banned  Since: 07-24-06 Since last post: 6107 days Last activity: 6197 days |
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Originally posted by Vulkar Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hitler killed everyone who was bad enough to pose a threat, and needed to be killed. Clearly, Hitler didn't kill any good people, and of course, protected them from evil people. I think the only way one could counter that would to say that good is solely defined by what God does, so there's no point arguing, but that wouldn't be a debatable point, and therefore invalid. |
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Cairoi This isn't about you and your loud mouth, This is about me and my fucking beard. Since: 08-29-04 From: PA Since last post: 4851 days Last activity: 4474 days |
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| Sparda, what I meant is that I think Old Testament is more Jewish, New Testament is Christian. My personal opinion is that Catholic and Christian doctorine really shouldn't be based off of Old Testament because it's not from Jesus.
I have trouble with people that use specific personal selections of the Bible to benefit their own needs. Like, they'll tell you all there is to tell about God's kindness, and how how the Old Testament says homosexuality is wrong, but they'll never talk about how God destroyed a city and flooded the entire world simply based on his decision. Look, I'm not trying to offend, but I have a lot of problems with a lot of religions, pretty much all of them. I feel like a lot of the time they feel like stories I'm supposed to die for, and I think that's stupid. I love the people that take kind things from the Bible, don't discriminate, and are all around cool. I have quite a few friends like that and I never feel uncomfortable being around them. But the zealots that kill and punish in the name of religon do not sit well with me. You seem them in pretty much every religon, and they taint names like God and Alah for me. People kill in those names. That's what bothers me. |
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BBQMissile ChaoticDeath Since: 08-16-04 From: New York Since last post: 4940 days Last activity: 928 days |
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And you would be right Cairoi. The Old Testament is more "Jewish" and the New Testament is more "Christian" if they can even be categorized as such. That is why the Old Testament, or the Torah, is what Jewish scriptures consist of while the Christian Bible includes the Old and New Testaments.
Originally posted by Cairoi Once again, you have to take into consideration that most of the things in the Old Testament were written simply to get a point across. And also, most of the things written in the Old Testament reflect the times. If taken into a more contemporary context, most of the things written in the Old Testament would be considered unwise and unnatural to carry out. Those who, as you said, tell about God's kindness and how homosexuality is wrong because it's in the Old Testament, are no different from the Pharisees in the New Testament. They are hypocrites and obey only the letter of the Law. They forget one of the most important things that Jesus taught his followers: To obey the spirit of the law. Originally posted by Cairoi This goes back to what i was saying earlier. Back then, during the times of the Old Testament, it would have been necessary to kill the unbelievers in the name of God for it was "kill or be killed". Such were the ways of people back then. But also as i said before, carrying out things that were done in the Old Testament, in modern times, would be unwise. The Bible has not changed. However, time has. Therefore, it is necessary not to be a slave of Scriptures and follow its every word. Rather, understand the message that it is trying to get across and follow that instead. And yeah, it's stupid to die for a bunch of stories. Dying for your faith is another thing though. |
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Logos Again? Banned Since: 07-24-06 Since last post: 6107 days Last activity: 6197 days |
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| Living for your faith is the way to go though. | |||
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Lord Vulkas Mormonus Vile High Xeodent of Xeomerica. Since: 10-29-04 From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way Since last post: 96 days Last activity: 96 days |
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Originally posted by Logos ... ... ... That is so far from what I said, it's not even funny. My point was that God knows what's best for this, and that everyon he killed actually did something bad. Hitler committed genocide on the fact that they were jewish. It's a completely different thing altogether. Originally posted by Cairoi I am glad to say that we who are Mormons have never tried to kill for our religion. There are actually a lot of religions that don't like killing, regardless of who it is. But yes, those who go around killing in the name of religion are ruining the point of the scriptures I think. |
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Xeios You WANKER! Since: 08-16-04 Since last post: 5076 days Last activity: 1386 days |
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| God killed all the bad people.
Satan killed all the truly good people. This shows how little faith there is for humanity. |
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Bitmap #1 Enhancement Shaman US Ravenholdt Since: 09-05-04 From: His Laughin' Place Since last post: 4559 days Last activity: 4553 days |
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Originally posted by White Actually, I think Satan made the bad people commit suicide. I mean, if he can make demons possess pigs into jumping off a cliff, I think he can do anything.  |
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Elara Divine Mamkute Dark Elf Goddess Chaos Imp Penguins Fan Ms. Invisable  Since: 08-15-04 From: Ferelden Since last post: 102 days Last activity: 102 days |
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| He made pigs jump off a cliff? That's new to me.
But yeah, one other point on Cairoi's thing about the Old and New Testament: The reason that the Christian faith incorporates the Old Testament is because Christians are really just Jews that believed that Jesus was the son of God. If you actually look at the Koran, the teachings of Jesus are in there, because they believe that he was a prophet just like Mohammad was (not the son of God, just a prophet). Now for my little piece of ignorance: is Satan even mentioned in the Bible before the New Testament? Jews don't believe in Hell as we know it, it's more like Purgatory from what I understand of it. |
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Lord Vulkas Mormonus Vile High Xeodent of Xeomerica. Since: 10-29-04 From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way Since last post: 96 days Last activity: 96 days |
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Originally posted by Elara Not exactly, I've actually read through this story recently(in the New King James version) and all of the demons were posessing a man. Jesus came, and they told him not to cast them away, and Jesus sent them into a herd of of several thousand pigs. So, it wasn't really Satan who did that. Originally posted by Elara I know that he's mentioned a lot, especially in the book of Job where he has a conversation with God. He also tempted Cain to kill his brother(Cain and Abel weren't neccesarily Adam and Eve's only children, for those who think they were), he was controlling a snake in the Garden of Eden, and is reffered to in the book of Psalms. I know there are more places, but I'd have to research it before telling you where. As for Hell, it's been mentioned in the book of Job as well, also I know there's a verse in Proverbs and Isaiah about it. As for Christians, you're mostly correct, although I'm not exactly a standard Christian, being Mormon. |
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