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Xeogaming Forums - General Chat - Bigots and Ignorance. | | | |
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Pockets Werewolf pockets Since: 10-20-04 Since last post: 5103 days Last activity: 4620 days |
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So at my work I am being required to buy and wear a new belt because the one
that I have has a pentagram on it. Apparently other employees have complained about my wearing a "Satanic" symbol. Apparently it offends someone. No one gives a shit that one of the other employees wears a big ass cross which offends the fuck out of me. He's got a torture device around his neck and I make no comment but someone has a problem with me being proud of my religion. Personally I feel that's fucked up, insulting and highly discriminatory. Thoughts? |
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Elara Divine Mamkute Dark Elf Goddess Chaos Imp Penguins Fan Ms. Invisable Since: 08-15-04 From: Ferelden Since last post: 112 days Last activity: 112 days |
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Point out that other people are wearing crosses or other symbols of faith and that to say that you cannot wear a pentacle is religious discrimination, which is illegal under federal law. Threat of a lawsuit usually makes them calm the hell down. Also, to the ignorant coworkers, explain what it means. But yes... mainly, by pointing out that the pentacle is a federally recognized religious symbol should make them back off. | |||
Pockets Werewolf pockets Since: 10-20-04 Since last post: 5103 days Last activity: 4620 days |
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Won't work. It's a small family owned company. They'll just fire me and say they
were unhappy with job performance or something so there's no legal way I can get at them. So then I'm out of a job and pissed off even more. They don't say that I can't wear one, it just can't be visible. So my pentagram around my neck I have to keep tucked into my shirt at all times. It just annoys me that they'd have the balls to tell me I can't wear my religious symbol. Willie, the guy that has that big ol cross. He comes into work at twelve every day, leaves whenever he wants. I do most of his job, and he get's payed more than anyone in the company. Reason? He's been best friends with the owner of the company since they were in Kindergarten. |
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Katana Dark Wizard \"She said tonight...come on come on collide...see what I fire feels like..I bet its just like heaven.\" Since: 08-15-04 From: Philadelphia, P.A. Since last post: 1567 days Last activity: 1384 days |
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That's really...infuriating, to say the least. What pisses me off more is that there are people out there that make a good thing seem like a bad thing. Like the Muslims after 911...they are being discriminated against because a few radicals are doing bad things under a name of something that is actually a very peaceful and loving thing.
Same with all other religion. I'm sorry, but I accept all beliefs. I don't know all, and I am not claiming to, but everything that I do know...all religion have the same core values...to be good people and stuff like that. But like the title says...it's all ignorance. A lot of it seems to be coming from the younger generation of Catholics and other various Christian denominations. Which I don't understand why. I was raised in the Catholic Chruch. Why do I feel so open minded? Because my family, teachers, and religious men and women of my Church have taught me those values. All my life I grew up with nuns and priests accepting everything and being intelligent about things...taking the time to understand other religions so that they can accept them better, while staying true to their own. As far as I know, the older (but not too old) generation was a bit more accepting of things, it was mostly the people in power who didn't accept things and they're the ones who matter, sadly enough. So to my suprise, upon entering high school, I saw stuff like you're going through, Pockets. I was honestly caught off guard by it. I'm used to seeing it now, but it's still so frustrating. People don't need to convert. There's no point to religion if you don't stay true to your beliefs. I just wish they would take the time to learn and TRY to understand. |
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kyle s kenedy Armorknight Since: 01-14-06 From: petaluma california Since last post: 6418 days Last activity: 6257 days |
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i am christian and i dont give a shit if it was my company you could where whatever religous symbol you wish as long as i didnt effect your or your co-workers effeciveness. also while your religon is recognized by the goverment people still look down on your religon so if you work with people i could see how your boss would want to not send of the wrong signals its fucked you but it is a socital view not my own. | |||
z33r0 Octorok Since: 04-07-06 Since last post: 5421 days Last activity: 5408 days |
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Oh my god that would frustrate the fuck out of me.
I don't get that whole illegal to make your employees cover up their religion thing. Even if they could prove they were being discriminated against and win their case thinger, the boss would probably hold a grudge or something and use little small things to get at them. Give them all the shitty jobs, make their hours longer etc. Employers have all sorts of ways in which they can screw their employees. If you're getting a double standard in uniform and being paid less than you should while someone else is paid more than they should be, what about a new job? Or just looking around at others, it hardly makes sense to just straight up quit your job, then you've stuck it to the man, but you're poor... or in debt. Neither of which is any fun. At any rate, if you're not getting the credit or respect you deserve at work he needs to change or you need to leave. Ideally a job is enjoyable, it isn't always but it should never interfere with your identity. And if it ever does it should interfere with Everyone’s, letting that one guy wear a cross is bullshit. I'm kind of a pessimist but belief is hard to change and I don't think simply explaining the pentagram to the people who are offended by it will work. Not because they wont understand but because they may have other ideas. X-tianity is more accepted because it is better known and is incorporated right into a lot of western society. The masses are asses but the masses also decide what's acceptable. Can't wear a pentagram at work but various celebrities can have their naughty bits on the covers of magazines. It's sort of like being a kid again, and the other kids are picking on you. If you told the adults the other kids would get in trouble, but then they'd alienate you and pick on you even more as soon as the adults weren't looking. |
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NUCKLEARKNIGHT Marco Since: 12-17-04 From: Petaluma, California Since last post: 5923 days Last activity: 5517 days |
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Well if it's a privately owned business than you really don't have much choice. And as z33r0 said explaining it probably won't change their minds or make them understand. I think that you can either suck it up and continue with the job, tell him you opinion on the situation, or quit. What do you do? Is it possible that he thought that you wearing a pentagram might drive away business because he thinks that other people have the same views has him or his co-workers? | |||
Lord Vulkas Mormonus Vile High Xeodent of Xeomerica. Since: 10-29-04 From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way Since last post: 107 days Last activity: 107 days |
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I know you all will hate me, but from a business prespective, I agree with the owners.
First off, in todays society, a pentagram is associated with satanism. And, as a lot of America is catholic, shouting out things about satanism isn't the way to make a good first impression. Think about it, you go into a store, and some guy is wearing the nazi symbol on his shirt, and seems completely serious about it. Either you would laugh at the guy, or you would hate him. From a business sense, the pentagram is the same way, though to a lesser degree. On the other hand, as most of America is christian, they see a guy wearing a cross, and think, "Oh, he's a good and honest christian man." So yeah, it might seem a bit unfair, but from a business sense, it's a good idea to not let you wear it. |
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geeogree Ninji Since: 10-19-04 Since last post: 5187 days Last activity: 280 days |
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well, as much as it's annoying that you can't.... it's just a belt. Get over it.
buy a new belt and wear your other belt when you're not working. I really don't think it's worth the trouble of arguing with your boss. |
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Bitmap #1 Enhancement Shaman US Ravenholdt Since: 09-05-04 From: His Laughin' Place Since last post: 4569 days Last activity: 4563 days |
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I agree with Vulkar, but my deepest sympathy to the Origional Poster.
In Disney, you are not allowed to wear anything symbolic. I had to tell someone to go home because they wore a Cross on their Neck. I told him I know its unfair, Im a christan too, but you have to wear that stuff on YOUR time. Not the buisness owner's You are only there for work. So I know it may annoy you, but I think you should stick this one out and bite the bullet. Or find another job that dosent care about what symbol you represent. |
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Siobhan. Red Paragoomba Since: 02-15-07 From: Boston Since last post: 6275 days Last activity: 5316 days |
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Originally posted by Vulkar I think I agree with you. And, as much as it sucks, it makes sense. I'm a satanist and I have a small, inverted pentagram necklace. I live in a very catholic neighborhood, and three times when I've worn it around, (not even at my job), I've been harassed. Okay, I'm a girl, a teen, and it's not like I'm macho, and I've been harassed by adult guys being aggressive towards me just for wearing the pentagram. I don't feel the need to display my beliefs with a symbol, but I like the necklace. However, if it will interfere with my safety or financial gain, I don't mind not wearing it. It makes sense. You're more likely to get shit from customers and such if you wear it at work, and it's like, why put yourself through that? It's not your fault that people are ignorant, and you don't have to be some sort of religious martyr, so don't even make a big deal of it. |
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Leon D. Sagara Zombie Tarma HELLO!!!!! ^_^ Since: 08-18-04 From: To Hell and Back Since last post: 5320 days Last activity: 4800 days |
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I also agree with Vulkar.
It deffinetly sucks don't get me wrong. I'm agnostic, so i understand what its like for people to look down on you cuz you don't believe the same thing. The company doesnt want to loose business over it. Business = money, money = paycheck. But it blows regardless dood |
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Elara Divine Mamkute Dark Elf Goddess Chaos Imp Penguins Fan Ms. Invisable Since: 08-15-04 From: Ferelden Since last post: 112 days Last activity: 112 days |
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But it is the other employees that are offended, not the customers. And it shouldn't matter that it is a small business or not, it's a Constitutional right... but yes, employers are assholes. However, I'm almost tempted to dare you to say that the one guy's huge cross offends you and see if he makes him stop wearing it since it is only fair.
But yeah... browse around on the job market on your free time. That job sucks anyway if being the boss's best friend gets you more money. |
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Bitmap #1 Enhancement Shaman US Ravenholdt Since: 09-05-04 From: His Laughin' Place Since last post: 4569 days Last activity: 4563 days |
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Originally posted by Elara That is True, but only if the regulations say you are not allowed to be symbolic in any way will this not be allowed. It may be a right, but you are free to worship any religion, not express it. There are certain areas where you are free to do so, like Smoking, there are areas where you can do that in public. Like freedom of speech, you can say whatever you want, but only with the right people. |
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Byte Dry Bones Back Since: 07-30-05 From: Macomb Since last post: 4627 days Last activity: 3599 days |
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What is the point of wearing a religious symbol? Whenever I see some one wearing a pentagram, a cross, or a star of David it's like they're saying "Hey I'm Christian, or Jewish, or Satanic!". I could really care less what religion you are as long as you're a good person. | |||
Cairoi This isn't about you and your loud mouth, This is about me and my fucking beard. Since: 08-29-04 From: PA Since last post: 4861 days Last activity: 4484 days |
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Originally posted by NagisOriginally posted by Elara *COUGH COUGH* Freedom of Expression *COUGH COUGH* |
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Elara Divine Mamkute Dark Elf Goddess Chaos Imp Penguins Fan Ms. Invisable Since: 08-15-04 From: Ferelden Since last post: 112 days Last activity: 112 days |
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Actually, there are laws in place that say that in the workplace and in schools it is illegal under both federal and state law to discriminate against someone because of race, religion, age, ethnicity, gender, disability, pregnancy, or sexuality. The original form of this law is Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. In most states this affects any business with 15 or more employees, however according to a legal site I was looking at, the state of California these laws apply to any business with five or more employee. The only exemption at all are independent contractors because they are self-employed... or at least that is something I briefly read before the website started acting up.
And actually, if they fired you over your bringing up the religious discrimination then that is grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit. Can you tell I've been playing with Google? Oh, the relavent text of Title VII, note the grounds for undue hardship and how they are not applicaple to the wearing of a religious symbol. Originally posted by Title VII (Last edited by Elara on 05-03-07 06:35 AM) |
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geeogree Ninji Since: 10-19-04 Since last post: 5187 days Last activity: 280 days |
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well, I'm of the opinion that while working you aren't "you"... you are an employee and either you choose to comply with the dress code your boss sets out or you find a job that allows you more freedom in what you wear.
I agree that it's not fair that other employees get to wear emblems of their religious beliefs and you don't, but I also feel like you are being just as ignorant as they are. "Torture Symbol".... really? I realize the cross was used as a way to kill people at some point in history, but I fail to understand how it is offensive to you. If the wearing of crosses actually offended you as much as you seem to say it does then why didn't you say something about it before? Is it just convenient that a you are offended by a "T" after someone was offended by your pentagram? |
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Elara Divine Mamkute Dark Elf Goddess Chaos Imp Penguins Fan Ms. Invisable Since: 08-15-04 From: Ferelden Since last post: 112 days Last activity: 112 days |
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Again, I notice that anytime that I post some relevant facts about the topic my post is completly ignored.
And the cross comment I made wasn't serious, however such tactics have been used effeciently in the past to prove that one is being discriminated against. It did offend pockets before that though, as he stated in his first post... but generally if you say "the cross offends me" you are ignored and dismissed. And you are always yourself, even while at work, hence why there are laws protecting employees. (Last edited by Elara on 05-03-07 06:46 AM) |
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Lord Vulkas Mormonus Vile High Xeodent of Xeomerica. Since: 10-29-04 From: North Carolina, United States. World, Sol System, milky way Since last post: 107 days Last activity: 107 days |
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Originally posted by Elara ...there are? You know, I could swear that there was this one jewish girl who went to school wearing that thing that covered her hair and got in huge trouble for it... Anyway, on the relavent topic, I'm going to ask a question about that law...is it in fact moral to restrict a private business? If I ran a business, I think that I'd like to know that I can fire, lay off, or run my business however I choose. It's privately owned, and as such, the government should have absolutely no place in the way I run it. Any thoughts on that subject? |
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