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| Xeogaming Forums - Debate Shrine - Border Security |
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How should we enhance security at our borders?| How should our government handle this problem? | A huge brick wall |
25.0%, 2 votes | Post snipers for non-compliant trespassers |
37.5%, 3 votes | A National Guard unit |
37.5%, 3 votes | More harsher punishment and fines for trespassers |
25.0%, 2 votes | Improve resource flow to the Border patrol (Manpower, equipment, etc.) |
37.5%, 3 votes | There is no problem. Stop being paranoid and grow a pair, Trigger. |
25.0%, 2 votes | Multi-voting is enabled. 8 users have voted.
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Trigger Happy Jones         Since: 02-21-06 From: It's not hell... But it sure feels like it. *sweating* Since last post: 6701 days Last activity: 6701 days |
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| Our border. We need to fix and how we should... Or do we? Any other options ya'll would like to suggest? | |||
geeogree Ninji Since: 10-19-04 Since last post: 5177 days Last activity: 270 days |
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| which border.... Canadian or Mexican? | |||
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Trigger Happy Jones Since: 02-21-06 From: It's not hell... But it sure feels like it. *sweating* Since last post: 6701 days Last activity: 6701 days |
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| Both, but predominatly Mexico. | |||
Bitmap #1 Enhancement Shaman US Ravenholdt  Since: 09-05-04 From: His Laughin' Place Since last post: 4559 days Last activity: 4553 days |
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| Heres a question for everyone here...following a statement...
"People, WHat the hell is National Security?" Now, I KNOW what National Security is...but I dont see it anywhere in the United States...heres why When I used to build houses with my father, he would hire Mexicans to help us do most of the work...He spoke fluent Spanish and asked them how they crossed over the boarder...Because they were illegial Aliens... One of them pulled out a picture of him hugging a boarder patroll guard...Not to mention before he hugged them, every guard just waved at them... I still have that picture as well... Theres no national security in the united states...The goverment is taking 5$ from your pockets to wave at the Mexicans as they pass by... So uhh...I think we should start out having boarder Patroll in GENERAL |
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Spartan Metal battleaxe Is back. Kind of. Since: 11-15-04 Since last post: 91 days Last activity: 80 days |
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| I voted for the one on the bottom...Just kidding though
Snipers would be ideal...Chain Link Fences aint cutting it. |
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Trigger Happy Jones Since: 02-21-06 From: It's not hell... But it sure feels like it. *sweating* Since last post: 6701 days Last activity: 6701 days |
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| Heh. I don't blame you, Chris. I'm fucked up, anyway.
I'm gald SOME PEOPLE agrees about the snipers. *Rubs hand evilly* |
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Van Rhanell Missile Bot  Since: 08-15-04 From: Fraser, Michigan Since last post: 6347 days Last activity: 6350 days |
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| Until people start smuggling things the size of Optimus Prime into our country, I see no problem with immigrants, or their possesions. People who come here illegally are sometimes more useful to our society than the ones born here. I don't think any country would send its poor next door to infiltrate that place's economy and destroy it from the inside out, we have too many citizens here who accomplish that. If you mean a geographical border problem, my long standing idea of painting big black lines where national and state borders are would finally be put to great use. | |||
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Trigger Happy Jones Since: 02-21-06 From: It's not hell... But it sure feels like it. *sweating* Since last post: 6701 days Last activity: 6701 days |
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| I'm not saying ALL illegals are bad, but those who come here to ruin the economy via working at a job for pennies a hour. Don't give me that "They work at jobs no one won't take" rhetoric. I know too many people who would work at those jobs at a drop of a hat.
They compromise our security, our workplace, and our nation in general. If they want to come here, they can go to Mexico City and fill out an application to immigrate here. |
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Savedox Berserker You put a bullet in my head, Till black turns to red! This could all end in tragedy!  Since: 08-20-04 From: Read \"Real Name\" Since last post: 4546 days Last activity: 1635 days |
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| We acctually had a big discusion on this the other day in class. What should we do about it and such.
One of the main reason's that we dont do good enough is that we dont have enough gaurds out there, I think the statistics my teacher gave us is that there is one gaurd for every mile of border. that leaves way to many wholes for people to get through. If we post snipers then we will have huge law suits from random people because of it... unless they dont find out.. .but more than likely they will.. What I think most of my class came up with is that we should build the giant brick wall.. but then the problem of cost of labor and such came up... I would say more.. but I dont want to burn any britches today, so if you want the rest of what im getting at.. just pm me or something.. lol I just dont want a argument |
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Elara Divine Mamkute Dark Elf Goddess Chaos Imp Penguins Fan Ms. Invisable  Since: 08-15-04 From: Ferelden Since last post: 102 days Last activity: 102 days |
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| I'm in no place to judge their motives, but they have their reasons. The reason that they work "penniless" jobs is not because they want to destroy our economy, it's the corrupt assholes that pay them those wages because they can get away with it. Even at that, they still make more than they would in Mexico in many cases.
How do we fix the problem? Have Mexico be a more appealing place to work and get the assholes in the US to have to pay illegal immigrants the same wages as they would a US citizen. That way the immigrant has the same chance as everyone else and then if he gets the job it's because he's skilled at it. Walls can be tunneled under, patrols can be snuck past or bribed, national guard isn't any better, and the audacity of even suggesting snipers is appalling! Worried about terrorists getting in? Train the damn guards to be able to tell the difference between nationalities. If you can tell the difference between a Mexican, a Columbian, and a Costa Rican just by accent (Spanish speakers can do it, so it's possible) then you can tell the difference between a Mexican and a Iranian or some other Arab nationality. |
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geeogree Ninji Since: 10-19-04 Since last post: 5177 days Last activity: 270 days |
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| Elara: the illegal immigrant deserves the same things the american citizen deserves? | |||
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Trigger Happy Jones Since: 02-21-06 From: It's not hell... But it sure feels like it. *sweating* Since last post: 6701 days Last activity: 6701 days |
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| Of course it's the corrupt assholes who charges only pennies a hour. That's my point. The illegal doesn't know the difference between decent pay and rediculously low pay. I'm not saying they're coming over solely for the purpose of destroying our economy. But their actions result in the harm our economy.
If you didn't read the choice, Elara, snipers wouldn't fire unless the illegal doesn't comply. As in the illegal starts hauling ass after a sniper says, "stop, dumbass, or I'll shoot". Sure, it's autrocous and it digusts me (this isn't a job I'd sign up for), too, but you can't reason with these people. They aren't going to stop if you say, "Please stop coming illegally." Peaceful resolutions have been tried, and have rarely suceeded. If I could, I'd add a new choice, since Elara made a good piont: Harsher punishment for employers of illegals. A couple of those asshats need to be smacked with a $2,000,000 fine and a whiffle bat. That alone can combat this problem with great effeciency. Not all terrorists are of middle eastern origin. There are a lot of mexicans as well as american Islamists who will blow us the hell up at the slightest chance. I'm not paranoid when it comes to terrorism, but we can't take the chance of letting potential terrorists in. But radical Islam is another thread. (Last edited by Trigger Happy Jones on 04-03-06 04:41 PM) |
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Elara Divine Mamkute Dark Elf Goddess Chaos Imp Penguins Fan Ms. Invisable Since: 08-15-04 From: Ferelden Since last post: 102 days Last activity: 102 days |
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| I know that not all terrorists are of midle eastern origin, however the biggest part of the "we need to secure our borders to keep out terrorists" argument is that middle eastern terrorists are crossing over from Mexico because they look hispanic.
What about electrified fences? Dig a 30 foot trench, fill that with concrete up to ground level, then secure a really tall electrified fence onto it. No one will cut a hole in it if they have half a brain, nor try to climb it, and it's secure enough not to be knocked down because it's rooted in 30 feet of concrete! Top it with barbed wire and we're good. And yes, geeogree, they do. Most immigrants that come here illegally come because it's easier for them to get a job here (because the corrupt asshole people want to hire them because they will work for less... because honestly, who could they complain to? The governement? They'd be sent back home). If it's not worth the risk to pay them cheaper wages, then they will have to be paid the same wages as (for example) that white guy who was born here and lives down the street. That means that it won't be as easy for them to get a job when they come here... they'd have the same chance as everyone else, and thusly would have to have diserable skills that would make them more likely to be hired. A double penalty would be better really. Fine for hiring illegal immigrant, and fine for paying an employee below the minimum wage (or whatever pay someone of that job normally gets). A lot of big companies can pay $2 million like it's nothing, so it has to be an ammount that would hurt them. |
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geeogree Ninji Since: 10-19-04 Since last post: 5177 days Last activity: 270 days |
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| oh, so you would solve the problem by forcing companies to hire and pay the same wage rate.... therefore making it less desireable to pay mexicans?
that's at least what I got out of what you were saying.... |
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Elara Divine Mamkute Dark Elf Goddess Chaos Imp Penguins Fan Ms. Invisable Since: 08-15-04 From: Ferelden Since last post: 102 days Last activity: 102 days |
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| Not Mexicans, but illegal immigrants. Here is example. Both applicants will be Mexican so that you can hopefully better see what I mean... also because I live in Southern California and that's right next to the Mexican border, so it's what happens here most of the time:
Currently: Job opening: dishwasher in a fancy eating establishment in Hollywood. Applicant A: Illegal immigrant from Mexico. Age 18, male. Speaks decent english, and hard working. Never had a job before. Applicant B: 2nd generation Mexican American, male age 18, also hard working. Never had a job before. Business hires Applicant A because they can get away with paying him $4/hour instead of minumum wage (currently $6.75/hour in CA). With double fines: Job: same App. A: same App B: same Business hires Applicant B, because not only would they take a fine for hiring an illegal immigrant, but they would also take a fine for not paying an employee minimum wage or higher. Does that make anymore sense? Prevent employers from exploiting illegal immigrants and it will work to stem the flow. No one will want to hire an illegal immigrant because of the fines. Why come over illegally if you can't get a job? The wage fine would also help actual residents who get ripped off by employers not paying them what they should. |
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Spartan Metal battleaxe Is back. Kind of. Since: 11-15-04 Since last post: 91 days Last activity: 80 days |
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| If we just enforce the laws...
Millions of people came in through Ellis Island..ALL LEGAL.. They applied for a visa to become an american Citizen... they learned the language and joined the workforce, pay taxes, pay bills. Illegal citizens put their students in schools that are payed for by american citizens tax dollars, they take welfare paid for by american tax dollars. What are they contributing to our country. and by the way...All the people who hate this country...YOU DONT HAVE TO LIVE HERE. GTFO if your going to bitch and moan just leave... |
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Trigger Happy Jones Since: 02-21-06 From: It's not hell... But it sure feels like it. *sweating* Since last post: 6701 days Last activity: 6701 days |
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| Electrified fences has been considered. A couple of reasons why it might not work:
1) Upkeep can be difficult. 2) Some can easily bypass this by wearing rubber gloves and rubber boots. It's not out of the question, though. I think Sajin asked me that one day... It could work. As for those who hate our guts, move the fuck away. Go to France, I hear they're a REEEALLY peaceful people! Or how about China? After a couple of months under their oppressive rule, ya'll be begging to come back. |
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Elara Divine Mamkute Dark Elf Goddess Chaos Imp Penguins Fan Ms. Invisable Since: 08-15-04 From: Ferelden Since last post: 102 days Last activity: 102 days |
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Originally posted by Chris Tylja They work. They're our cooks, our waiters, our garbagemen, grocery store workers, factory workers, house cleaners, advertising distributers, mechanics. A lot of them come here because they can't get work in their native countries, or because they want to give their children a better life than they could back home. Many of them do get their citizenship after a few years of being here, many who came here single go back home after saving up money that they've earned. I knew a waitress once. She immigrated here legally from Brazil after meeting and marying her American husband; and spoke perfect english. She was a doctor in her home country, now she's a waitress in America. Explain to me how that is possible. |
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geeogree Ninji Since: 10-19-04 Since last post: 5177 days Last activity: 270 days |
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well, I'm gonna be a jerk and say that she was probably doing more good down there and he should move with her back to Brazil 
I mean come on, she's a doctor.... but truthfully.... I've never understood that one.... I regularly hear about doctor shortages and line-ups at hospitals etc.... why not certify the hundreds or thousands of doctors that do come here so that they are able to practice medicine in America (including Canada) |
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avatar of law Beezo  Since: 12-29-04 From: paris, canada Since last post: 5770 days Last activity: 5770 days |
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Originally posted by Elara well, think of it this way... i think it's fair that they are paying them at a lower wage. 1. they have no SSN, therefore, cannot find a job anyways, so they are thankful that they even have a job, even if it's lower pay. 2. the owner needs to also pay taxes, he cannot file for a break if he cannot legally say that the illegal is working for him, therefore, he has to pay him less. 3. there are other states that has a minimum wage of $5, it's just a shame that cali and texas are at the boarder. as for the electric fence, i'd like someone from this board to actually walk the entire boarder and see how long it actually is. additionally, how does one power such a large fence, i doubt there's running electricity out in the boonies. (solar/wind power would be great, but i dont think it's going to be strong enough) additionally, there's the bad weather. you'll constantly have to monitor it. then there's the animals, birds resting on it, getting fried, and other animals who knows. and again with the animals, you'll be blocking their territory. they wont be able to go back and forth, therefore creating bad genetics due to intense inbreeding. we need to reform how we secure the boarder, not to do something radical. i really don't see a real solution for this, unless annexing mexico is something that's too radical. perhaps sometime in 100yrs or something. |
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| Xeogaming Forums - Debate Shrine - Border Security |
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